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Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#51

Post by zzalpha »

davidf18 wrote: post #32

This FB post is referred to in the article, written by a woman who is very, very supportive of TK: https://www.facebook.com/margaretann.seger/posts/10214004058... 1000 people have "liked" the posting including Zuckerberg and a number of women have commented in support of TK. EDIT: This is from the FB poster, Margaret-Ann Seger. Other women seem to confirm her perspective. If it were truly a sexist culture as was clai…

If it were truly a sexist culture as was claimed then you wouldn’t be seeing these testimonials.

Fascinating.

One group of women saying the culture in Uber is corrosive? Well that's rumour and innuendo.

But another group of women saying it's fine? Well, then that's just the way it must be!

Confirmation bias much?

Here's the thing: There was an investigation. By Eric frickin' Holder. Not exactly a legal slouch. Out of that came nearly fifty recommendations for ways to fix the culture.

Are we to believe Holder was just full of it? That it was all manufactured? All because 6% of the Uber headcount think things were fine?

Edit:

Incidentally, those women that are supportive of Kalanick could easily be explained by survivorship bias. That is, the women that ended up in groups that didn't suck, or could handle the culture, stuck around while the rest left.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#52

Post by mempko »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #12

I'm sure it's not "some" but a lot of employees, but most are afraid to speak out just because they have seen what happens to people who advocate for someone who's down. I know for a fact that a lot of Uber employees nowadays can't talk freely outside about the fact that they work at Uber, when they used to be proud to talk about it just a couple of years ago. I also know that many employees at Uber (men or women) ar…

You owe Uber nothing, no, less than nothing. Don't defend them, they pay lawyers for that.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#53

Post by spikels »

CalChris wrote: post #19
benicelifeshort wrote: post #17

No company can hire as fast as Uber and remain good. No company ever has and no company ever will. His mistake was not being technical or creative enough to scale the company's service without scaling the headcount. The specific symptoms are not particularly interesting or novel. In fact they were entirely predictable and the company is surprisingly good for how poorly it was built. There are a number of major pitfal…

Everything else aside, and there's a lot to set aside, Uber should have focused on turning a profit with their core business model (difficult) rather than, oh look! a shiny object: automated cars. I give them no credit for growing big and unprofitable.

Take a look at the economics of driverless cars. It is not a case of "Oh look! a shiny object" but "Oh no! We are building an obsolete business". Even the big automakers now understand this will be radical change (Ford hired away part of Uber's team).

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#54

Post by mcphage »

spikels wrote: post #53
CalChris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything else aside, and there's a lot to set aside, Uber should have focused on turning a profit with their core business model (difficult) rather than, oh look! a shiny object: automated cars. I give them no credit for growing big and unprofitable.

Take a look at the economics of driverless cars. It is not a case of "Oh look! a shiny object" but "Oh no! We are building an obsolete business". Even the big automakers now understand this will be radical change (Ford hired away part of Uber's team).

> It is not a case of "Oh look! a shiny object" but "Oh no! We are building an obsolete business".

Why? Even when driverless cars are standard, why does Uber need to spend the money building their own driverless car program, instead of just buying driverless cars from the manufacturer like the rest of us will do? Their business plan doesn't require them to build the technology, just use it. It would be like if Miss Cleo in 2003 foresaw the future was smartphones, and thought the best way to proceed was to start her own smartphone manufacturing company—instead of just making sure that she could get called from the smartphones that others were going to make.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#55

Post by censoredaf »

namesbc wrote: post #39
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #12

I'm sure it's not "some" but a lot of employees, but most are afraid to speak out just because they have seen what happens to people who advocate for someone who's down. I know for a fact that a lot of Uber employees nowadays can't talk freely outside about the fact that they work at Uber, when they used to be proud to talk about it just a couple of years ago. I also know that many employees at Uber (men or women) ar…

I don't understand how you can both state that Uber isn't good, but also want us to stop working to make Uber and the rest of tech better? Many companies, like Uber, have a hostile work environment for 50% of the workforce, and that is bad for everyone! If you are not a target of the hostility, and you want to think about it selfishly, We are losing out on millions of our best minds until we solve this.

If you find it hostile, dont work there. I dont like corporate amd government suit environments, and i dont work there.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#56

Post by majewsky »

mcphage wrote: post #54
spikels wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at the economics of driverless cars. It is not a case of "Oh look! a shiny object" but "Oh no! We are building an obsolete business". Even the big automakers now understand this will be radical change (Ford hired away part of Uber's team).

> It is not a case of "Oh look! a shiny object" but "Oh no! We are building an obsolete business". Why? Even when driverless cars are standard, why does Uber need to spend the money building their own driverless car program, instead of just buying driverless cars from the manufacturer like the rest of us will do? Their business plan doesn't require them to build the technology, just use it. It would be like if Miss C…

You're assuming that auto companies will just sell these driverless cars like they did regular cars. This may be true for Tesla (esp. since they're successfully marketing their not-yet-driverless cars as "equipped for autopilot" to improve sales before driverless is actually a thing), but for other auto companies, I could easily see them offering driverless cars only as-a-service.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#57

Post by hanspeter »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #12

I'm sure it's not "some" but a lot of employees, but most are afraid to speak out just because they have seen what happens to people who advocate for someone who's down. I know for a fact that a lot of Uber employees nowadays can't talk freely outside about the fact that they work at Uber, when they used to be proud to talk about it just a couple of years ago. I also know that many employees at Uber (men or women) ar…

> they used to be proud to talk about it just a couple of years ago

There hasn't been much reason to be proud in many years. Yes, the technology is cool, but the market approach has been off from the beginning. Working for a company that consistently breaks the law as part of the business model is rarely something to be proud of.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#58

Post by davidf18 »

zzalpha wrote: post #51
davidf18 wrote: post #32

This FB post is referred to in the article, written by a woman who is very, very supportive of TK: https://www.facebook.com/margaretann.seger/posts/10214004058... 1000 people have "liked" the posting including Zuckerberg and a number of women have commented in support of TK. EDIT: This is from the FB poster, Margaret-Ann Seger. Other women seem to confirm her perspective. If it were truly a sexist culture as was clai…

If it were truly a sexist culture as was claimed then you wouldn’t be seeing these testimonials. Fascinating. One group of women saying the culture in Uber is corrosive? Well that's rumour and innuendo. But another group of women saying it's fine? Well, then that's just the way it must be! Confirmation bias much? Here's the thing: There was an investigation. By Eric frickin' Holder. Not exactly a legal slouch. Out of…

> "One group of women saying the culture in Uber is corrosive? Well that's rumour and innuendo."

I never suggested rumor or innuendo. But it is sexist to not believe not a single woman but a number of women who come out and support TK. Women know even if they have not experienced it directly (e.g. "the grapevine") if it were a sexist environment. It is sexist to discount the FB poster, Margaret-Ann Seger and the many other women who have come out in favor of TK. Ms. Seger even suggests the cultural difference which favors her personality in her post where she said she was too aggressive for the FB environment but fit right in with Uber.

Eric Holder would not be my first choice to investigate a corporate culture. There are professionals who have both MBAs and who are clinical psychologists that even specialize with hi-tech companies who also see patients on an individual basis. Eric Holder is not a clinical psychologist, has no clinical experience, is not an expert in corporate culture let alone the unique culture of the hi-tech startup firm.

These people have the clinical and business experience to deal with corporate cultures and those that specialize in hi-tech firms understand that unique environment.

Disclose, I have worked with such a specialist.

I have worked in Israel and the culture there can be off-putting to many in the US, especially those from the west coast. Intel, which employs 10,000 in Israel, even offers cross-cultural classes between West Coast and Israeli culture. Many people would consider Israelis very pushy (Hutzpah is the term). Israelis are very direct and many people don't like that. I happen to love that but adjust for different people.

In summary, it is sexist to discount the opinions of women who worked with TK. Eric Holder is not a clinical psychologist nor an expert in hi-tech culture. He is no industrial psychologist. It is strange that a non-professional would be chosen to investigate the organization.

Something else was going on.

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#59

Post by zzalpha »

davidf18 wrote: post #58
zzalpha wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were truly a sexist culture as was claimed then you wouldn’t be seeing these testimonials. Fascinating. One group of women saying the culture in Uber is corrosive? Well that's rumour and innuendo. But another group of women saying it's fine? Well, then that's just the way it must be! Confirmation bias much? Here's the thing: There was an investigation. By Eric frickin' Holder. Not exactly a legal slouch. Out of…

> "One group of women saying the culture in Uber is corrosive? Well that's rumour and innuendo." I never suggested rumor or innuendo. But it is sexist to not believe not a single woman but a number of women who come out and support TK. Women know even if they have not experienced it directly (e.g. "the grapevine") if it were a sexist environment. It is sexist to discount the FB poster, Margaret-Ann Seger and the many…

But it is sexist to not believe not a single woman but a number of women who come out and support TK.

ROFL. I could literally replace the word "support" with "do not support" in this sentence and it would be an equally valid argument.

A bad one. But equally so.

Read my comment again. I already explained why both groups of women could be right.

Something else was going on.

You're confirmation bias is showing again...

Re: Some Uber Employees Balk at Travis Kalanick’s Exit

#60

Post by bmm6o »

athanas wrote: post #31
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #12

I'm sure it's not "some" but a lot of employees, but most are afraid to speak out just because they have seen what happens to people who advocate for someone who's down. I know for a fact that a lot of Uber employees nowadays can't talk freely outside about the fact that they work at Uber, when they used to be proud to talk about it just a couple of years ago. I also know that many employees at Uber (men or women) ar…

It's somehow symptomatic that two of the eloquent replies below are: "Some of us think that the similarities Uber has to other tech companies in this area is an indictment of these other companies, not an excuse for Uber." and "Uber is not just like every other company. That's seriously some "boys will be boys" type thinking to excuse the messed up behavior of a certain few." It seems interesting (and characteristic…

They don't read to me as contradictory at all, though I have to say the second one you quote is kind of ambiguous as to what it's trying to say. They both seem compatible with the belief that in an industry with sexism problems, Uber's problems are worse than most.
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