Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 86 posts

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#51

Post by andreiw »

TheBobinator wrote: post #47
vthallam wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, that's what all it comes down to I guess. Like, be happy because there are jobs in the first place or unionise, make them accountable for all kinds of regulations and give them a hard time? Maybe the Chinese or perhaps anyone wouldn't have invested in the first place if they think they can not generate enough profits to sustain, so giving an easy pass for safety standards or any regulations would encourage this.

Over the long-term, the way Americans are fighting Communism is by introducing capital to modernize China which in turn should raise a middle class and cause them to evaluate capitalism on its merits. This is part of that struggle, and an attempt to avoid a bloody war if China were to decide on rapidly modernizing like Japan did pre-WW2. So I'd say China can take their trade and their factories and shove it, but that…

So destroying America's manufacturing potential in everything from textiles, to electronics and heavy industries was all part of a scorched-earth secretive plan to fight Communism in China?

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#52

Post by mistermann »

TheBobinator wrote: post #47
vthallam wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, that's what all it comes down to I guess. Like, be happy because there are jobs in the first place or unionise, make them accountable for all kinds of regulations and give them a hard time? Maybe the Chinese or perhaps anyone wouldn't have invested in the first place if they think they can not generate enough profits to sustain, so giving an easy pass for safety standards or any regulations would encourage this.

Over the long-term, the way Americans are fighting Communism is by introducing capital to modernize China which in turn should raise a middle class and cause them to evaluate capitalism on its merits. This is part of that struggle, and an attempt to avoid a bloody war if China were to decide on rapidly modernizing like Japan did pre-WW2. So I'd say China can take their trade and their factories and shove it, but that…

> Over the long-term, the way Americans are fighting Communism is by introducing capital to modernize China

Fighting communism? That's rich. Do you think the ability for corporations to cut costs in half while keeping sales constant might have just a little to do with it?

> if China were to decide on rapidly modernizing like Japan did pre-WW2.

Holy cow....without American corporations going over and teaching them how to do it, there's no way China could have modernized as quickly as they have. Everyone now is in the position of having to hope China will be a benevolent leader of the world, because it's almost inevitable at this point that they will surpass the US by a very wide margin.

> Trump's a warning shot across the bow of foreign powers and the establishment that the American public aren't going to put up with the lack of a social contract and continuous exploitation forever. He's not going to get a lot done, but that's part of the point; he's showing them that there are repercussions to economic warfare and subjugation.

Trump's movement is being put down as efficiently as the Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sanders movements were put down, and the exploitation of Americans with their full compliance will continue. He's not going to accomplish anything.

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#53

Post by woodruffw »

mistermann wrote: post #48
woodruffw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth noting that there's a big gap in the perception of NAFTA (and its ilk) and their actual consequences. In terms of actual consequences NAFTA has had almost no effect on the US economy, either positive or negative: a 2003 CBO report found that it had increased the US's GDP by only a few billion dollars[1]. Different sides have presented job loss and gain in different industries over the last 20 years…

> In terms of actual consequences NAFTA has had almost no effect on the US economy, either positive or negative: a 2003 CBO report found that it had increased the US's GDP by only a few billion dollars[1]. Compared to speculation as to what the economy would have been without NAFTA. > The real benefits of agreements like NAFTA for the US are geopolitical stability and economic dominance Which the US didn't have befor…

> Compared to speculation as to what the economy would have been without NAFTA.

Sure, but it's just that: speculation. The reality is that the economy and jobs market have both grown, with no aid or detriment from NAFTA.

> Which the US didn't have before? If anything, the US is far less dominant now.

In terms of our relationships with Mexico and Canada? We're 50% of Mexico's imports [1], and 54% of Canada's [2].

I can't really dispute the feeling that we're less dominant. All I can say is that agreements like NAFTA and TPP are designed and refined with US economic interests in mind. When we leave the negotiating table, we lose our primary chance at advantageous trade agreements.

> Asia is eating the US's lunch without China even being competitive at the top of the value chain, which isn't too far away. When they achieve that, things will start to deteriorate even more rapidly.

If this is true, then trade agreements are especially vital. Developing economies need investment, and they're going to get it one way or another.

[1]: http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/mex/

[2]: http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/can/

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#54

Post by MachinShinn- »

Do you know why manufacturing left America? It has nothing to do with costs. It has everything to do with regulations and attitudes.

If you want a manufacturing industry, workers WILL get killed on site. Workers WILL get cancer from dangerous chemicals. There's no free lunch. Everyone knows this, but somehow we care more about a high school dropout getting exposed to fumes in a factory than one that ODs on heroin because he has zero job prospects.

Either blue collar workers die at 65-70 after a lifetime of work related exposure, or they die at 30 due to drug overdose. Those are your 2 and only 2 choices.

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#55

Post by rhcom2 »

MachinShinn- wrote: post #54

Do you know why manufacturing left America? It has nothing to do with costs. It has everything to do with regulations and attitudes. If you want a manufacturing industry, workers WILL get killed on site. Workers WILL get cancer from dangerous chemicals. There's no free lunch. Everyone knows this, but somehow we care more about a high school dropout getting exposed to fumes in a factory than one that ODs on heroin bec…

Why are those the only two options? Why can't we continue make manufacturing safer like we have been since the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire?

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#56

Post by dis-sys »

bduerst wrote: post #6

Glass is heavy and brittle, making it both expensive and difficult to ship. Many glass mills need to be within a certain mile radius of the factories they supply because of this. NYT missed this in the article.

They setup the factory in US because of the heavy taxes back in China. The chairman mentioned in the article gave a detailed talk touching this subject at the end of 2016 and he claimed that it is cheaper to operate in US once taxes are all factored in.

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#57

Post by dis-sys »

cbhl wrote: post #38
lacampbell wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwanese people love queueing. Queueing for the train, queueing waiting for the bus, and - of course - queueing around the block to wait to eat at a 'famous' restaurant (:

My Taiwanese parents were the sort to enter a large queue without knowing what it was for, because whatever was at the end of it was bound to be good.

oh, then they should visit the mainland and start queuing for a licence plate in Shanghai - 18 months waiting time on average, $15k cost. crazy? They can also renounce their ROC citizenship and start queuing for an apartment in Beijing or Shanghai, 60 months to become eligible and $1m to get a 2bedroom one next to a noisy main road in an area traditionally considered as poor neighbourhood.

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#58

Post by brobinson »

shangxiao wrote: post #19
arthur_trudeau wrote: post #3

It's somewhat surprising for the NYT to put forward the proposition that ethnocentrism and disregard for worker safety is a part of Chinese culture, but I guess I'll take their new wokeness as a sign of progress.

I think it's worth pointing out that this appears to be mainly Chinese culture from the mainland. Chinese from other areas like Hong Kong and Taiwan seem to be completely different. When I visited Taipei I was pleasantly surprised to see how polite these people were, they lined up in queues to board their subway!

There's still a huge amount of 差不多 in Taiwan, unfortunately.

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#59

Post by qeternity »

tuna-piano wrote: post #9

China is a gigantic investor in the USA. Whenever you hear the term "trade deficit" that the US has to China, there is an identical amount in "investment surplus" that the US gets from China. That investment is everywhere - in our stock market, in our government debt, in our real estate and in our Ohio Windshield plants. Every time you buy an iPhone, you're handing China hundreds of dollars which they then invest in…

> China is a gigantic investor in the USA. Whenever you hear the term "trade deficit" that the US has to China, there is an identical amount in "investment surplus" that the US gets from China.

This is a bit of an oversimplification of how balance of payments resolves itself. For instance, their central bank (PBOC) has the largest FX reserves in the world. When we buy things from China, the seller can either keep USD to invest/purchase something in the US, or can buy CNY. To keep the CNY from appreciating too much and making Chinese exports uncompetitive, the PBOC sells CNY and buys those USD. They in turn use some of the proceeds to purchase US Treasuries. However they do this not because they want to invest in the US, but because they want to hedge inflation. So yes, your comment is true-ish, and global trade is an amazing thing, but it's a bit misleading to say every dollar sent abroad returns to "invest in America" in the typical sense that most people/HN commenters think of investing.

Re: Culture Clash at a Chinese-Owned Plant in Ohio

#60

Post by chii »

mistermann wrote: post #45
tuna-piano wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, read into the balance of payments: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/060403.asp#axzz1rYFT... It's basically: Stuff+Investments sent = Stuff+Investments received Think about it this way: China sends the US an iPhone, and the US sends dollars (paper / numbers on a screen) in return. China put a lot of work into the iPhones... what did they get? They got the opportunity to buy stuff in America with dollars! W…

> China sends the US an iPhone, and the US sends dollars (paper / numbers on a screen) in return. China put a lot of work into the iPhones... what did they get? They got the opportunity to buy stuff in America with dollars! This makes it sound like every dollar from the US finds it's way "back home". China has been doing a lot of investing in other places like Africa, and China. Where does that money come from? Not A…

ultimately, only place you can ultimately spend american dollars is in america. Some spent indirectly do find its way back to america, some stay out and circulate for a very long time, but imagine a scenario where america collapses (suddenly for an unknown reason). Will countries that used to take american dollars as a form of payment continue to accept it? I'd say no.

Therefore, money spent by china in africa in the form of american dollars will ulimately be re-used to purchase american goods.

Post reply on HN