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Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#51

Post by pwython »

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what I want. I see all of these articles on HN on how to break free from Google or some other eco-system because they're "evil." I dunno, I guess I don't have a CIA-level job that most of these commenters have where they need to be off the grid.

"Alexa, play me that song I like. And while you're at it, order me a case of my favorite beer. Thanks."

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#52

Post by WalterSear »

oomkiller wrote: post #25
wklauss wrote: post #8

> Six years later, the technology giant is struggling to find its voice in AI. I know that this is the most common approach to the situation but the article -as many other articles that have argued this before- provides no proof other than analysts speaking in broad strokes. I use Siri, Alexa and Assistant several times a week if not everyday and I'd hesitate a lot before saying that Siri is behind. Alexa is more res…

Siri is obviously behind Google Assistant on general knowledge queries. It seems like if Siri doesn't understand something, it falls back to unhelpfully searching the web, something that is not useful if you can't look at your phone. Assistant on the other hand attempts (with decent accuracy) to extract a useful answer to your question, and reads it back to you.

Assistant also uses your previous queries and the semantics of your question to guide the search, as google search does.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#53

Post by BoorishBears »

throwanem wrote: post #38
BoorishBears wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that Apple is the OEM behind the device that runs their OS, and Google (usually) isn't.

Also that Android only gained the ability to enforce iOS-style fine-grained app permissions (prompting on first use for access to camera, location, etc., instead of a blanket grant at install time) one major version ago, which means that many if not most users can't actually get the benefit without buying a newer phone. I gather there are some questions around the strength of its app sandboxing as well, but I can't s…

Those permissions are also opt-in for devs at the moment (by choosing certain OS versions at build time you can still use the old permissions system).

I'm an Android dev and to me the biggest problem with Android from every aspect (development, security, monetization) is how poorly new versions of Android are supported on devices.

Apple's dig at Android 7 usage vs iOS 10 usage was spot on.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#54

Post by jug »

kingbirdy wrote: post #7
spiderfarmer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can Google do in the cloud that Apple can't do on the device?

Apple can only look at you to learn - Google can look at you, and a million other people like you

I think many Apple users would be happy if only Siri could answer factual questions objectively and follow a conversation, being happy with a minimum of privacy collection like current location, name of spouse for messaging, etc.

While some may prefer a knowledge about you or you via people like you, as in, "Please recommend me a great movie", Siri is currently not in a stage where she may tell you stuff like "How do I mix a White Russian?" Google Assistant give me 6 steps with a photo and a follow up question "What about Screwdriver?" Siri gets utterly wrecked in the knowledge based questions.

I think the main problem is not privacy-related, but knowledge base-related. Google is building upon a fricking huge search engine via a knowledge graph and the sky is the limit for how well an AI can do. Apple is building on what, a shut down Ping social network, Apple Music listening habits, Wolfram Alpha hopes if all else fails, and a sparse Bing Search API if that failed too?

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#55

Post by coldtea »

lqdc13 wrote: post #39
__jal wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't claim to be a fanboy, but I am a longtime user[1], and this is the primary reason I stick to them for my phone. I frankly can't imagine using Android the way I use my Iphone - the privacy invasions considered acceptable are well in to the "no go" range for me, before even getting to the malware that pass for "free apps". If I were somehow forced to use Android, I'm pretty sure I'd treat it as an adversarial dev…

Not sure how you use your iphone or what you would need from a smartphone, but I don't understand the distinction. Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. You're left with maps and browser. People tend to use google maps and Waze on iPhone anyway so that point is gone as well. If they use Apple maps, I am not convinced that apple doesn't store location history. So then you're…

>Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those.

Only when you use them.

You can either not install them at all (problem solved).

or only allow them to "know your location" when you explicitly launch them and only for the duration of you actively using them on screen (problem lessened).

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#56

Post by virmundi »

coldtea wrote: post #55
lqdc13 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you use your iphone or what you would need from a smartphone, but I don't understand the distinction. Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. You're left with maps and browser. People tend to use google maps and Waze on iPhone anyway so that point is gone as well. If they use Apple maps, I am not convinced that apple doesn't store location history. So then you're…

> Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. Only when you use them. You can either not install them at all (problem solved). or only allow them to "know your location" when you explicitly launch them and only for the duration of you actively using them on screen (problem lessened).

I don't know if they've fixed this, or if was just me not working the phone right, but Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#57

Post by virmundi »

coldtea wrote: post #55
lqdc13 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you use your iphone or what you would need from a smartphone, but I don't understand the distinction. Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. You're left with maps and browser. People tend to use google maps and Waze on iPhone anyway so that point is gone as well. If they use Apple maps, I am not convinced that apple doesn't store location history. So then you're…

> Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. Only when you use them. You can either not install them at all (problem solved). or only allow them to "know your location" when you explicitly launch them and only for the duration of you actively using them on screen (problem lessened).

I don't know if they've fixed this, or if was just me not working the phone right, but Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#58

Post by soperj »

coldtea wrote: post #55
lqdc13 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you use your iphone or what you would need from a smartphone, but I don't understand the distinction. Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. You're left with maps and browser. People tend to use google maps and Waze on iPhone anyway so that point is gone as well. If they use Apple maps, I am not convinced that apple doesn't store location history. So then you're…

> Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those. Only when you use them. You can either not install them at all (problem solved). or only allow them to "know your location" when you explicitly launch them and only for the duration of you actively using them on screen (problem lessened).

You can do similar things on Android. You can also turn off your gps in 2 seconds as well.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#59

Post by Barrin92 »

pwython wrote: post #51
macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

I see it this way too. For way too many people privacy seems to have turned into a kind of religious end in and of itself. I think evaluating privacy in real, material terms as in ("what actually happens to me if I gave up my privacy here, and what do I get?") makes more sense than treating it as quasi sacred.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#60

Post by joshstrange »

jjuel wrote: post #49
rosstex wrote: post #26

Me: Hey Siri, what cheese goes well with fruit? Siri: Here's what I found on the web for "What cheese goes well with fruit..." Me: Hey Google, what cheese goes well with fruit? Google: "Edam"

Siri: "Oh you have a question. Let me Google that for you."

IF ONLY, instead it uses bing....
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