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Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

blog.peer5.com

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Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#51

Post by om2 »

nottorp wrote: post #47
om2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense you're right. But we also want to make sure WebRTC websites don't blow out your battery, and we went to some effort to make sure it uses efficient video encoding/decoding paths. That said, this was not a majority of the effort.

Besides battery life, Chrome on the Mac prevents sleep indefinitely sometimes. If you check with pmset -g assertions, you'll see Chrome saying "WebRTC has active PeerConnections". No thanks Google, you shouldn't get to decide when my PC goes into sleep mode. I really hope Safari is better than that... Edit: just as i'm typing this, Chrome has: pid 19325(Google Chrome): [0x001ccbbb00018b19] 01:55:40 NoIdleSleepAsserti…

I believe Safari will block sleep only if there's actively playing video or audio in a foreground tab.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#52

Post by om2 »

callalex wrote: post #29
o_____________o wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has absolutely kneecapped web technologies. Mobile Safari has simple, egregious bugs that have been open for years. We're talking about things like being able to crash the browser with CSS or file selection, etc. It's impossible to make the case that Apple is just rejecting features for the sake of the user. The next question is why, and you'll need some creativity to come up with any other answer than pointing…

Any input that can crash the browser is a potential security vulnerability. Can you point me to an example of an inpatched crash in Safari that has been "open for years"?

We'd super appreciate bug reports of reproducible crashes and we definitely try to look at them. Bugs welcome at http://bugs.webkit.org/

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#53

Post by derf_ »

om2 wrote: post #45
derf_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it support VP8 as required by RFC 7742 "WebRTC Video Processing and Codec Requirements"?

Not in the version that will ship in iOS 11 / High Sierra. Not yet determined for future versions.

If there's anything we (Mozilla) can do to help, please let us know.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#54

Post by om2 »

Matthias247 wrote: post #49
om2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebRTC is actually quite complicated to implement and it took a large effort by a big chunk of the WebKit team, even though we had a lot of code that we could reuse. People have a lot of theories about Safari deliberately omitting one feature or another, but the truth is there's only so much we can do at once. ETA: If you look at the page counts of all the required specs (ECMAScript APIs, WebRTC protocol specs, under…

I'm not related to the Safari or any other browser team in any way. But I totally believe that it's a giant amount of work. I personally researched the effort which would just be required to implement webrtc data channels in a server application and have been rapidly been put off after seeing that I would need to have support STUN, TURN, ICE, DTLS and DTCP. With each of them having giant specs. The media formats and…

We did end up using libwebrtc but we had to strip a lot of the dependencies and also update it use system services instead where appropriate.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#55

Post by matthewmacleod »

o_____________o wrote: post #19
abalone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not holding up progress. They have different objectives, and chief among them is power efficiency. Chrome eats up a lot more battery life than Safari.[1] So did Flash (among other conflicts), and I think we all accept now that "holding that up" was good for the web in the long run. Apple tends to take a little longer and suffer a little short-term pain to get it right in the long run. [1] https://daringfireba…

Apple has absolutely kneecapped web technologies. Mobile Safari has simple, egregious bugs that have been open for years. We're talking about things like being able to crash the browser with CSS or file selection, etc. It's impossible to make the case that Apple is just rejecting features for the sake of the user. The next question is why, and you'll need some creativity to come up with any other answer than pointing…

This is just mince. There are no long-standing crashes in Safari that "crash the browser with CSS or file selection". And from a purely anecdotal point of view, I've found it the least annoying browser to use by far.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#56

Post by [deleted] »

o_____________o wrote: post #19
abalone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not holding up progress. They have different objectives, and chief among them is power efficiency. Chrome eats up a lot more battery life than Safari.[1] So did Flash (among other conflicts), and I think we all accept now that "holding that up" was good for the web in the long run. Apple tends to take a little longer and suffer a little short-term pain to get it right in the long run. [1] https://daringfireba…

Apple has absolutely kneecapped web technologies. Mobile Safari has simple, egregious bugs that have been open for years. We're talking about things like being able to crash the browser with CSS or file selection, etc. It's impossible to make the case that Apple is just rejecting features for the sake of the user. The next question is why, and you'll need some creativity to come up with any other answer than pointing…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#57

Post by TD-Linux »

Nullabillity wrote: post #37
ArlenBales wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a WebRTC version of Twitch.tv? Is that feasible in 5 or 10 years? Twitch does transcoding and I'm not sure how transcoding would work with WebRTC.

It would probably be possible for smaller communities today, given how cheap bandwidth already is. For comparison, I'm currently paying ~$13/mo for a (symmetric) gigabit connection. The main reasons for transcoding are downstream bandwidth usage and codec support. WebRTC mandates VP8, so codecs shouldn't be an issue. Downstream bandwidth usage probably wouldn't be a major concern when it's viable to stream at 1080p t…

You can also fall over to a classic client/server model with WebRTC for one to many broadcasting, while still keeping the advantages of very low latency (and reusing much of the same code).

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#59

Post by matthewmacleod »

microcolonel wrote: post #34
abalone wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget energy efficiency. That's a huge priority for Apple and explains a lot of delays. Safari is way more energy efficient than Chrome.[1] [1] https://daringfireball.net/2017/05/safari_vs_chrome_on_the_m...

This is completely unrelated. This is a feature which their platform completely lacks, if they added this feature it would not have an effect on the energy efficiency of code which does not use it.

But it would affect the efficiency of code that does use it, which is the whole point.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#60

Post by no1youknowz »

om2 wrote: post #46
russelldc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any chance for Screen(or window or tab) Sharing to make it in?

Not in High Sierra / iOS 11 but we're aware of this and considering it for a future version.

Shame it didn't make the current version, but great to hear it will be available in a later one.
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