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Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

nytimes.com

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Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#51

Post by Steve44 »

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #14

my n=1: I am on an extremely low sodium diet (around 500mg/day) and I didn't find any difference in thirst or hunger levels compared to when I was on a more typical 4000-5000mg/day one. The only change for me (besides of course a period of adjustment where food didn't taste like much) has been a significantly lower blood pressure (from typically 145/85 to 105/65), everything else has remained pretty much the same.

As with many things different people react in different ways. Examples with taste include Low Salt (potassium based) which a few people taste as being quite bitter. Coriander / Cilantro is a lovely herb to many, but a few people find it very soapy.

My understanding has been that some people are more sensitive to sodium than others. If your BP is normal, chances are it won't have much affect, but if you've high BP then it is more likely to have an affect on your BP. I can't comment on causes, perhaps those who are more sensitive are more likely to have raised BP.

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#52

Post by vixen99 »

givan wrote: post #50

Salt as far as I know is the only mineral (non plant) spice we use, it's purpose is to enhance taste. There is a common confusion between salt (sodium chloride) and sodium, many falsely believing salt is not used only for taste but it's essential for health. Sodium is a vital element that is found in almost all plants and animals and there is no need for an extra sodium intake because our food has plenty. Sodium and…

its purpose

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#53

Post by ear_wars »

tajen wrote: post #42
PKop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This simple lesson was taught to us day one in boot camp when I was in the army, and reiterated constantly over the years. We were required to take our salt packet out of our MRE's and eat the entire contents. The amount of water consumed (and flushed out through perspiration) throughout the day would have severely dehydrated anyone who didn't consume adequate (high) levels of salt.

Same: As a backpacker I worked in Kununurra, north of Australia, pruning 500 sandalwood trees a day. With 42•C, we drank 9 liters of water in 7hrs. Legend says a guy of the previous year didn't take electrolytes and died of dehydration. We literally soaked the portable waterproof batteries with out sweat.

I did not expect to read my about my home town on a comment here... I have plenty of experience picking mangos on a family farm there and I can also say we drink insane amounts of water and sweat it all out. You can squeeze your clothes and watch the sweat pour out.

After the work day I'd always have an insane craving for a Bundaberg ginger beer. Maybe I'd be getting electrolytes from that?

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#54

Post by godmodus »

givan wrote: post #50

Salt as far as I know is the only mineral (non plant) spice we use, it's purpose is to enhance taste. There is a common confusion between salt (sodium chloride) and sodium, many falsely believing salt is not used only for taste but it's essential for health. Sodium is a vital element that is found in almost all plants and animals and there is no need for an extra sodium intake because our food has plenty. Sodium and…

human habits include many activities that consume a lot of water too - if you drink alcohol, salt consumption on that day/night is a must!

i find adding some soysauce to a cup of water and chugging that before bed takes care of most side effects.

and food does taste better with salt added, i must admit, esp. meat.

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#55

Post by godmodus »

mistermann wrote: post #40
PKop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This simple lesson was taught to us day one in boot camp when I was in the army, and reiterated constantly over the years. We were required to take our salt packet out of our MRE's and eat the entire contents. The amount of water consumed (and flushed out through perspiration) throughout the day would have severely dehydrated anyone who didn't consume adequate (high) levels of salt.

I drink tons of water and I get lots of cramps, presumably from electrolyte shortage. Is there any way of knowing what the right amount of salt is to be consuming?

basic osmosis - water washes out the body's minerals. esp. tap water.

add a bit of salt to your tap water - it helps to retain water and doesn't flush out your deposits.

too much water and too much salt are both bad! had a dude in my village die after drinking around 5 liters on a dare - nervous system failure. it was so severe that he couldn't be saved.

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#56

Post by SepUltra »

dottrap wrote: post #11

This needs to be paired with Scientific American: It's time to end the war on salt https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-t...

Actually, the Scientific American article is wrong. This space study also concludes that salt is harmful. Now possibly in more ways than was previously known.

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#57

Post by pso »

dhimes wrote: post #17
cannonpr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting, did you control for changes in other diet elements, exercise, and water intake ? Some more recent studies show that except for short term spikes in blood pressure, salt isn't that guilty for high blood pressure in healthy individuals.

I'm going to throw a wrench into the gears by sharing the following: I had high blood pressure- not medication-triggering, just high-eyebrow stuff when I was younger (30s-early 40s). As a teenager I learned of the dangers of salt and weaned it out of my diet. I got married and am the cook of the family, so after much complaining I started to add salt to my dishes when I cooked. My blood pressure when down. Not by a l…

Another n=1. I've been on 2 blood pressure pills for 2 years I was reading about very low sodium diets, and decided to start an experiment on Thursday. Eating only unprocessed foods, non-dairy/meat/fish. I dropped the diuretic pill at the beginning, and have now dropped the ARB medication. Gone from average 140/95 to 124/84 in 4 days.

It seems possible that there are widely varying responses, and for those like me who are salt sensitive, then low sodium may mean 500mg rather than 1500/2250mg that various research suggests. In hunter/gatherer societies, 500mg would be a more typical level one would receive - this research refers to 4 tribes with lowest sodium intake (& lowest BPs) in INTERSALT study. http://publicacoes.cardiol.br/abc/2003/8003/80030005i.pdf.

Also, came across, an article which mentioned no other animal has a sodium potassium balance with more sodium than potassium which is what most humans in 'modern' world now have.

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#58

Post by gosheroo »

godmodus wrote: post #54
givan wrote: post #50

Salt as far as I know is the only mineral (non plant) spice we use, it's purpose is to enhance taste. There is a common confusion between salt (sodium chloride) and sodium, many falsely believing salt is not used only for taste but it's essential for health. Sodium is a vital element that is found in almost all plants and animals and there is no need for an extra sodium intake because our food has plenty. Sodium and…

human habits include many activities that consume a lot of water too - if you drink alcohol, salt consumption on that day/night is a must! i find adding some soysauce to a cup of water and chugging that before bed takes care of most side effects. and food does taste better with salt added, i must admit, esp. meat.

>food does taste better with salt added

Right, so the mode of intake matters, not just the salt itself.

For example one could eat bland (unsalted) food and drink salt water later which would produce less pleasure for the same quantity of sodium consumed. So there might be different physiological effects.

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#59

Post by godmodus »

gosheroo wrote: post #58
godmodus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

human habits include many activities that consume a lot of water too - if you drink alcohol, salt consumption on that day/night is a must! i find adding some soysauce to a cup of water and chugging that before bed takes care of most side effects. and food does taste better with salt added, i must admit, esp. meat.

>food does taste better with salt added Right, so the mode of intake matters, not just the salt itself. For example one could eat bland (unsalted) food and drink salt water later which would produce less pleasure for the same quantity of sodium consumed. So there might be different physiological effects.

taste + pleasure centers in the brain.

used to be useful when we were huntergatherers!

these days, it's just nice for food to taste good!

Re: Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong

#60

Post by mtreis86 »

mistermann wrote: post #40
PKop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This simple lesson was taught to us day one in boot camp when I was in the army, and reiterated constantly over the years. We were required to take our salt packet out of our MRE's and eat the entire contents. The amount of water consumed (and flushed out through perspiration) throughout the day would have severely dehydrated anyone who didn't consume adequate (high) levels of salt.

I drink tons of water and I get lots of cramps, presumably from electrolyte shortage. Is there any way of knowing what the right amount of salt is to be consuming?

Rule of tongue - if it tastes salty its too much salt.

Take a half full water bottle. Add some salt. See if it is salty yet, then keep adding until it is just barely salty. Then fill the bottle to the top. If you taste salt you added too much.

Note that with kcl, you start with less water, more like a quarter of the bottle, because the salty flavor is much weaker.

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