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Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

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Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#51

Post by schoen »

realonedev wrote: post #28

I belong to the third world of the third world. State called Uttar Pradesh. If you consider India as 3rd world, then UP is 3rd world of India. Here are the emotional benefits of Aadhar : My parents don't have to bribe the local gas connections distribution agents. Which means, No need to stay in long queue from 8 In the morning, not to get your cooking cylinder, but to pay the bribe. Since the government has advertis…

> Notice a fun fact, Aadhar was introduced before 2013, before the election of 2014. Not many these so called privacy and human rights activists stood up then.

I realize you're probably talking about people in India in this context, not people in the U.S., but I helped write part of this anti-Aadhar post back in 2012:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/09/indias-gargantuan-biom...

In support of your view that some critics have minimal knowledge of India, but also in opposition to your view that critics are motivated by considerations of Indian politics, I don't know which party was in power in India either before or after the 2014 election.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#52

Post by ganduG »

mundanevoice wrote: post #48
adityab wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have been fine with Aadhar if - They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication - There would not be an API for commercial services I just want the government to be able to provide its services smoothly. I don't want random startups leaking or selling everyone's data.

You do understand that it doesn't only rely on fingerprints, right? There is retinal verification in addition to phone OTP. I had another phone number when I got Aadhar, I changed the city, lost my phone number and now there is no way, I can without physically getting somewhere and submitting the application to update my phone number. API for commercial services isn't a bad thing per se. A lot of time, it would save…

But using Facebook and other websites is a choice. Using Aadhar is not a choice - its mandatory.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#53

Post by gumby »

One of the big problems of Aadhar to me is the mandatory use. I understand the terrible problems of stolen benefits, and how the card could help.

But in a country as large, dispersed and disorganized as India, mandatory is a risk. Plenty of people will slip though the cracks and be unregistered. It works in a tiny country like Germany where it was built on top of other infrastructure (ID cards were introduced in the 1930s; other uses were introduced lated once they had become essentially ubiquitous).

In addition, the lesson of China is salutary: siblings (whose very existence violated the one child policy) were often not registered, and thus missed out on schooling and other benefits. The "hukou" system controlled who was allowed to work or travel -- and surely everyone can imagine a government trying to fight urban slums by prohibiting migration from the countryside (by denying benefits)?

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#54

Post by abhishivsaxena »

adityab wrote: post #26
mundanevoice wrote: post #20

All people criticising Aadhar for being insecure frankly don't have a real solution in place. Being an Indian citizen I know and have experienced benefit owing to Aadhar. I get subsidies from the government, one uniform identity that I can use to get important things. Coming to the security part, which centralised biometric DB doesn't have risks. Social Security Number in the US is pretty similar. No one gets securit…

I would have been fine with Aadhar if - They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication - There would not be an API for commercial services I just want the government to be able to provide its services smoothly. I don't want random startups leaking or selling everyone's data.

1) Fingerprints are harder to fake than what's being used currently - signatures and xerox

2) Fine. Don't authenticate with Aadhaar when you go to get a commercial service. Why force you choice on me?

And the info they get is name/dob/gender. Which they would anyway have - Aadhaar or no Aadhaar - since you are their customer.

Please think through it.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#55

Post by ShirsenduK »

aub3bhat wrote: post #6

This is ridiculous fearmongering at a scale unseen before, given the enormous amount of corruption in Indian public distribution schemes, Aadhar has potential to be revolutionary in not only reducing corruption but also in providing poor people in India with assistance that they currently lack. Its easy to be a rich and employed in SF and pontificate about how other countries should run their government. Mozilla is e…

Yes they scan the biometrics and I allow it. But do they make it the password for different services? Coz thats where its headed. Authentication and Authorisation are not the same thing.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#56

Post by schoen »

abhishivsaxena wrote: post #37

OMG Mozilla. No wonder open internet is in such a bad shape when we have you leading it. 1) Aadhaar is not fundamentally different than a National ID which every other country in this world has. India not only lacked it, out birth registrations certificates weren't reliable at all. 2) Yes they do collection Biometrics(BM). But BM are never shared with any other agency/company. And it's strictly codified in law. BM ar…

> Aadhaar is fundamentally different than a National ID which every other country in this world has.

Not the United States!

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card... seems to suggest national IDs are voluntary in 15 countries, nonexistent in 9, and mandatory in 82. One thing that seems possibly significant is that six of the non-mandatory ones include the entirety of the "Anglosphere".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere

That's right, each of the Anglosphere countries has no mandatory national ID. And although the culture and politics of those countries varies quite a bit, including with regard to privacy and civil liberties issues and beliefs about state power, I believe that each one includes a significant number of citizens who are quite proud that there's no mandatory ID, regarding it as a particular way in which their country is more free than others, and as something worth defending.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#57

Post by realonedev »

petertodd wrote: post #45
realonedev wrote: post #28

I belong to the third world of the third world. State called Uttar Pradesh. If you consider India as 3rd world, then UP is 3rd world of India. Here are the emotional benefits of Aadhar : My parents don't have to bribe the local gas connections distribution agents. Which means, No need to stay in long queue from 8 In the morning, not to get your cooking cylinder, but to pay the bribe. Since the government has advertis…

Propaganda? Your 30 minute old account sounds like propaganda too. We all know we could reduce crime by putting cameras in people's homes. But we don't do that, because there are risks to those kinds of invasive measures. Aadhar is infrastructure that allows for centralized control of the population. Sometimes that control will be used for good things, like stamping out bribery. But that control can just as easily be…

Propaganda? Your 30 minute old account sounds

Do you know the difference between a reader and writer ?

Please Google the difference.

Not every reader on hn for over 5 years needs to have an account.

And, not every old account need not contribute anything useful to the discussion.

Good Day.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#59

Post by aashiks »

realonedev wrote: post #40
aashiks wrote: post #35

The short sightedness and naivety of this comment is disgusting. The poor and the rich have had "real" identification that has worked well - the electoral ID for example. Forcing aadhar down everyone's throat with no practical complaint redressal is the issue here. (Good luck getting UIDAI to take responsibility) Aadhar is not progress. Forcing biometric identification that relies on brittle infra is not progress. It…

Where exactly have you seen the 30℅ number ? Did you just made up? All proganda against Aadhar has not been exactly proven. None of the Aadhar bashing article have been able to exactly point by point prove any of claims made against Aadhar.

I can share the data with you. Actual Aadhar failure logs. Do you want them ? Give me an email.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#60

Post by CommanderData »

These comments demonstrate how patriotism can affect ones rational and objective thinking.

There are understandably benefits and convenience, however the articles focus is not that. It highlights the inherent threats to citizens individual freedoms that has somehow been missed by commentators.

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