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NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

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Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#51
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitution violations and hollowing of citizen protection worldwide. The upside is that a society that doesn't care, eventually gets what it deserves.

That's an upside?

Feedback is good.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#52

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

What do you mean nobody cares anymore? This is a very strange notion I see propping up more and more in people's minds, as they get overloaded with information they don't know what to do with.

There are lots of very experienced people and resources allocated to this problem across the world working on it round the clock. But this is a hard problem. It's going to take multiple generations to achieve a mature resolution. Some problems don't fix themselves in the timeframes it takes John Oliver or Alex Jones to write a skit.

I find the press and their stand up comic proxies in their quest to "inform and educate" the public are creating a whole lot of unnecessary anxiety and panic.

It's a great way to hold everyone's attention without serving any purpose other than producing media figures. And in the attention economy constructed by Youtube/Twitter/Facebook no question this benefits them to a great deal.

Just because systems exist today that are bringing to your attention every single problem known to man doesn't mean you need to be involved in the solutions that are above your paygrade. Especially if your career and life experience don't involve the skills to do something about this. I am sure there are problems out there you can apply your skills and experience too.

This sort of defeatist attitude is very infectious and especially effects the psyche of people with the skills who could actually play a role down the road.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#53
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people care enough, they can bring down governments... And in much worse conditions...

It's hard enough getting people to use VPNs and Tor.

Most people don't see it as a problem. They regard NSA as looking out for them, and confide that as long as they themselves do not engage in terrorism, they've nothing to fear from it.

Which, to a good first approximation, is true. But those of us with a sense of history mistrust any such gigantic agglomeration of unaccountable power, because we know how deeply susceptible such apparatuses are to employment toward unsavory ends.

The trouble is that there's no good, quick, simple way to bring this home to people. You end up sounding like Chicken Little, or so underplaying the significance of the issue that even a sympathetic interlocutor fails to recognize its gravity.

I don't really know a third way; I don't even know that there can be one, other than waiting for some suitable example in point, one that can't be explained away as an artifact of specific circumstance, and building the discussion around that. But even that strategy is fraught at best, and the easiest way to lose any argument is always to yield the initiative. So I don't really have a good, generally workable option here, as regards persuasive discourse on the issue, and if anyone else does, I'd sure like to hear about it!

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#54
post #29

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

> The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitution violations and hollowing of citizen protection worldwide. The upside is that a society that doesn't care, eventually gets what it deserves.

I don't see this as an upside. You can't really blame people for that - this is a systemic issue, and it was predicted it will happen. People, in aggregate, don't respond to abstract problems like that by any form of prolonged care.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#56
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not news to me. But it does seem like most people don't care. Or don't care enough. However, what could they do, even if they cared enough?

If people care enough, they can bring down governments... And in much worse conditions...

Yeah, well. They can because of the "much worse conditions". If you push people hard enough so they aren't fulfilling the lowest level of Maslow's pyramid, you'll get your bloody revolution. NSA issues is way too abstract for that.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#57
post #30

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Encrypt everything. I wouldn't trust the political process to work itself out in the near future, so a technical approach may be the answer in the meantime. I've moved all my friends to Signal not because we're having sensitive conversations, but because we're voting with our actions.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#58
post #30

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Some argue for disengagement, coupled with strong security and privacy. The cypherpunk equivalent of dropping out.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#59
post #55

I think that the privacy issue will get worst quicker under Trump, which is why I voted for him. I think that it is required, for it to get better, because people don't care enough yet.

It wont happen that way. How many times has America been through this kind exercise? Truman gave us a dire warnong and not enough cared. Look at Iraq, Vietnam, Hiroshima and Nagasaki--they were all unjustified atrocties, and that is the truth--which you will come to if you research them--but it's too easy to make up believable bullshit that the people gobble up. Most of us are conditioned to follow leaders, and "great men are almost always bad men." Who has time to think or worry about this? Our jobs, lives, bills and healthcare are overwhelmingly stressful and if that wasn't enough we are conditioned by our culture to religiously value money over everything else, which keeps us in line and productive.

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell

Something big needs to happen to prevent this.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#60
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Encrypt everything. I wouldn't trust the political process to work itself out in the near future, so a technical approach may be the answer in the meantime. I've moved all my friends to Signal not because we're having sensitive conversations, but because we're voting with our actions.

Yes. And privacy does give you more options. But be careful not to be too obvious about it, because that makes you a target.
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