Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#51

Post by watwut » Tue, May 09, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #24

watwut wrote: post #17

There are two important factors: 1.) is this dead end career or rather it will be possible for you to find another job later? A lot of money now in exchange of having trouble to find another job later on is a bad deal. 2.) How does the shittiness affect you personal life? If it makes you constantly angry and lashing out at girlfriend/boyfriend, you risk losing her or at least damaging the relationship. Factor that in…

You neglect the scenario in which the overpaid employee could be married with dependents. When your kids depend on your paycheck, this is not such a simple matter, and making trades for "a lot of money now" doesn't seem like such a bad deal. When you're young and uncommitted, you can afford to make moves on airy idealism. You can't when you have something important riding on it. This is true even if you have a lot of…

I agree that he should find another job with reasonable pay before leaving this one, especially if he is in situation you described.

However, none of my three was result of idealism. I think that I am older then the average here and I have kids. As I got older, those three became more important not less. Including and maybe especially after children. Children benefit from father that interacts with them happily and normally, if the dad is frustrated and angry from work it is harder. If you damage relationship with spouse while you have children, consequences are more painful to fix then as if you was twenty and just figuring out whether she is long term material or not.

I have seen people who became demotivated and complacent drones - and it did became real problem and it caught them up. It is harder to get rid of bad habits at later age. Ageism is also very real, so the older you are the more careful you have to be at how you look to prospect employers.

If you have small children you have less time to learn out of work and less free time to just relax. That makes the choice of work more important not less. You can not just slack around dead end technology in work and then use evening to learn new things as much as before (lets be honest, that is what many people without responsibilities at home do).

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#52

Post by gagabity » Tue, May 09, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

Try having all of the above and getting crap pay! Unless the job is actually causing you mental anguish I recommend you stay and find your hapiness elsewhere or until you find a better equal paying job.

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#53

Post by watwut » Tue, May 09, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

rmah wrote: post #8

Create a vision, get the team to buy into it. Convince senior managers to buy in. Present and execute a plan to fulfill the vision. Be the change you want to see. Edit: I can see that I need to explain in more depth. Too many technically-oriented folks take the cultural and political landscape of a company as a given. It is not. You can change it. Even as a relatively junior employee, your attitude, communications an…

Sometimes you can change it, other times you can not. You are not the only person trying to influence culture and oftentimes the culture became that way because someone is actively trying to keep it so. In that case, you start from disadvantage and not everyone is equipped to do so - it takes great social skills.

You also become threat to established people as you are trying to change the culture. You need to be ready for ugly politics and bacstabbing tactic when it happens. Really bad cultures are result of upper management values and incentives they put in place. If upper management rewards (whether on purpose or as side result of other goal) the behavior you consider bad, then your attempts to make situation better man end up punished.

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#54

Post by cookiecaper » Tue, May 09, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #51

cookiecaper wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You neglect the scenario in which the overpaid employee could be married with dependents. When your kids depend on your paycheck, this is not such a simple matter, and making trades for "a lot of money now" doesn't seem like such a bad deal. When you're young and uncommitted, you can afford to make moves on airy idealism. You can't when you have something important riding on it. This is true even if you have a lot of…

I agree that he should find another job with reasonable pay before leaving this one, especially if he is in situation you described. However, none of my three was result of idealism. I think that I am older then the average here and I have kids. As I got older, those three became more important not less. Including and maybe especially after children. Children benefit from father that interacts with them happily and n…

Of course I agree that if someone can simply move to a better working situation, they should; that seems tautological. In practice, doing this takes preparation, and you can never really know what to expect until you've already made the jump. It's important to realize that going nomad any time work goes sideways will lead to a lot of instability over a period of years.

It seems a more tenable solution is to control the response to one's working environment and then seek to control/improve the working environment, leaving the mirage of greener pastures as a last resort.

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#55

Post by watwut » Tue, May 09, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

holydude wrote: post #37

runako wrote: post #29

Care to level-set on the tech stack? How "old" is the old tech stack? Is it "old" like Rails 4? J2EE? COBOL? Mainframes?

Not that "old" but shitty. Lots of spaghetti connections to a different systems. No documentation and none seems to know how it should really work.

Sadly, that is not out of ordinary. Learning how to achieve in such environment would be useful to you.

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#56

Post by dismantlethesun » Tue, May 09, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #54

watwut wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that he should find another job with reasonable pay before leaving this one, especially if he is in situation you described. However, none of my three was result of idealism. I think that I am older then the average here and I have kids. As I got older, those three became more important not less. Including and maybe especially after children. Children benefit from father that interacts with them happily and n…

Of course I agree that if someone can simply move to a better working situation, they should; that seems tautological. In practice, doing this takes preparation, and you can never really know what to expect until you've already made the jump. It's important to realize that going nomad any time work goes sideways will lead to a lot of instability over a period of years. It seems a more tenable solution is to control t…

I don't think it's simple. I know people that took as much as a year to find a job they liked while remaining employed at a poor workplace. However it is important, so even if it takes time and effort you should try to look for better work rather than accept the current situation.

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#57

Post by blizkreeg » Tue, May 09, 2017, 6:18 PM UTC

If you're in your 20s, leave, for anything else really.

If you're in your 30s and have family/big bills and/or a side project/venture, stay put, try to not be bothered so much and bank money. If not, leave and do something better with your time.

If you're in your 40s, find something better (that gives you future leverage) that can pay you equal. At 40+, high pay is not a leverage for future employment (it's a liability IMHO).

If you're in your 50s, ride it out as long as possible and save as much as possible.

If you're in your 60s, why are you still enduring this?

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#58

Post by RandomOpinion » Tue, May 09, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #24

watwut wrote: post #17

There are two important factors: 1.) is this dead end career or rather it will be possible for you to find another job later? A lot of money now in exchange of having trouble to find another job later on is a bad deal. 2.) How does the shittiness affect you personal life? If it makes you constantly angry and lashing out at girlfriend/boyfriend, you risk losing her or at least damaging the relationship. Factor that in…

You neglect the scenario in which the overpaid employee could be married with dependents. When your kids depend on your paycheck, this is not such a simple matter, and making trades for "a lot of money now" doesn't seem like such a bad deal. When you're young and uncommitted, you can afford to make moves on airy idealism. You can't when you have something important riding on it. This is true even if you have a lot of…

> When your kids depend on your paycheck, this is not such a simple matter, and making trades for "a lot of money now" doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

Sure, until the gravy train ends, and it always does (layoffs, reorganizations, etc.), and you wind up looking for a new job with skills that are irrelevant or out-of-date. Unless you're within spitting distance of retirement, staying in a job that isn't growing you and preparing you for your next job (or, worse, might be burning you out) is a massive risk.

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#59

Post by chubot » Tue, May 09, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

I would take the opportunity to work on some open source projects or throwaway learning projects in this time.

This is a perfect opportunity. Get your work done but invest your energy in something else so you don't get "bored-out".

Re: Ask HN: Shitty job but well paid

#60

Post by holydude » Tue, May 09, 2017, 6:40 PM UTC

frandroid wrote: post #18

holydude wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is you never know if it is going to be better or worse. My experience is that it is mostly the same everywhere. What changes is the paycheck, company logo and the faces

Maybe the problem is with the constant between all these situations then...

Maybe or maybe not :)