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Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

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Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#51

We tried this in San Francisco and it gets dragged into some crazy anti-religious fight. It's about the rights of the baby, not about some religion's outdated beliefs. Children should be free of mutilation, regardless of their religion.

Exactly. And last time I checked Jewish people have a place to live that is violently protective of their way of life, namely Israel.

Muslims also perform male circumcision it's called Khitan.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#53
post #5

It's genital mutilation. There's no medical reason [1]. Yes, having a foreskin means you need to clean it regularly (or your caregiver if you're a baby). And then there are disgusting things like this [2]: > In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to clean…

Look up phimosis. At two minute Google search could have found this.

It's a valid medical reason for the operation. Not to mention the above mentioned.

Not only do your facts not hold up to a brief Google, but the reputation of the people suggesting this could have made you think twice.

Twice about the possible motivations. And that could have given you again doubts.

And calling it mutilation implies those who have and want to have this engage in mutilation akin to FGM. It's irresponsible.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#54
post #43
post #5

It's genital mutilation. There's no medical reason [1]. Yes, having a foreskin means you need to clean it regularly (or your caregiver if you're a baby). And then there are disgusting things like this [2]: > In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to clean…

Categorically false. I have a newborn boy and talked to a number of doctors about it - there is actually a slight benefit to the circumcised child [1], it just isn't enough for the American Association of Pediatrics to recommend it outright. [1] https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages...

Here is a link to the actual technical report,

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/e756

Which has all the hallmarks of misleading data.

See the comments for more http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/e756.com...

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#55
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, parents are allowed to mark their children with musical taste, their political views, their habits, their values. These are also irreversible. Parents are allowed to feed their children the way they want, to take their children to spots where they might get a disease, to pass on their own diseases to their children. Parents are allowed even to pass on their genes, which may contain horrible psychological tenden…

"Other bad things happen so we shouldnt try to improve this Bad thing!"

I think the parent is just pointing out that the outrage seems a bit disproportionate. There are far more damaging things a parent can do that most people accept, whereas the actual effect circumcision has on your life is basically zero.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#56
post #43
post #5

It's genital mutilation. There's no medical reason [1]. Yes, having a foreskin means you need to clean it regularly (or your caregiver if you're a baby). And then there are disgusting things like this [2]: > In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to clean…

Categorically false. I have a newborn boy and talked to a number of doctors about it - there is actually a slight benefit to the circumcised child [1], it just isn't enough for the American Association of Pediatrics to recommend it outright. [1] https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages...

Perhaps. But like with most medical procedures there is risk vs reward. In this case the risk is a 100% chance of altering how your child's sex organs look and function without their knowledge or consent vs a small and dubious reward.

In other words don't fucking do it because it is barbaric and evil. If you think it's not, ask an uncircumcised adult to have the procedure done for all the benefits it provides and see how many agree.

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found a big exception to your blanket statements: There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe. WHO/UNAIDS recommendations emphasize that male circumcision should be consi…

I'm sure there are a lot of physical mutilations we could make to people that would reduce the chances of various diseases. Nonetheless, I think there's a moral issue in slicing up children (or adults) for this reason. Do our bodies belong to ourselves, to the government, to someone's god, or to the people around us? Not that I'm saying you're advocating it; just continuing the train of thought.

And to follow the train of thought all the way - do children's bodies belong to themselves or to their parents? Parents (or Guardians) do have to make some decisions for their children, but perhaps should defer irreversible decisions on elective surgery until the child is old enough to have an opinion - boys and girls both. And if the thought of asking a 13 year-old girl if she wants to have her genitals modified gives you pause, perhaps consider how circumcision is any different?

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#58
post #53
post #5

It's genital mutilation. There's no medical reason [1]. Yes, having a foreskin means you need to clean it regularly (or your caregiver if you're a baby). And then there are disgusting things like this [2]: > In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to clean…

Look up phimosis. At two minute Google search could have found this. It's a valid medical reason for the operation. Not to mention the above mentioned. Not only do your facts not hold up to a brief Google, but the reputation of the people suggesting this could have made you think twice. Twice about the possible motivations. And that could have given you again doubts. And calling it mutilation implies those who have a…

Phimosis doesn't manifest until around puberty and can almost always be treated non-surgically. It's not a justification for permanent invasive surgery on babies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0079408/

Re: Norway's Progress Party calls for ban on circumcision for boys

#60
post #19

This is one of those topics where people have extremely strong opinions, yet the vast majority of people affected by this practice (circumcised males) have no opinion or even a favorable opinion of their circumcision.

Yup, all these sorts of threads get brigaded by MRA weirdos. It's such a weird hill to die on, none of the "victims" seem to care.
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