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Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

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Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#51

Post by phil21 »

panglott wrote: post #31
Nav_Panel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's stopping chains from replicating this Probably volume. Chinatown is extremely dense and has such high foot traffic that it makes sense to operate without refrigeration, with goods stocked from neighborhood warehouses. Most parts of the country don't have anywhere near that level of density, so the economies of scale wont work out like they do in Chinatown.

Free market economics always works best in an actual marketplace, where vendors are competing stall-to-stall. Most Americans buy groceries from a large corporate-owned store that they drive to and has everything, which compete with other large corporate-owned one-stop-shop that you have to drive to.

This is absolutely how I feel as well. I always found it interesting the most competitive areas always happen to be where tons of very small high volume shops exist. This is not just limited to the US, but anywhere in the world I've traveled.

The older I become the more I realize how absolutely devastating the development policies of sprawl and low-density have been to all areas of human endeavor. You can't have effective competition without density and an ability to start extremely small.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#52

Post by HillaryBriss »

technotony wrote: post #2

Fascinating. I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for a tech startup to replicate this network more generally. I could see the network connecting the sellers with the farmers directly, plus coordinating delivery of the veggies... it's an easier problem than ubereats delivery as you've got fewer nodes. Maybe you even skip the sellers entirely, which basically gets you to CSA boxes but those always felt expensive to…

> CSA boxes ... always felt expensive to me

Me too.

The original article explains the cheap pricing in Chinatown markets with:

Chinatown’s 80-plus produce markets are cheap because they are connected to a web of small farms and wholesalers that operate independently of the network supplying most mainstream supermarkets.

But that also describes the way CSAs work. They source their produce directly from various independent farms, many owned and operated by individual families rather than large agri-corporations.

But the prices I've seen CSAs charge are often higher than prices for the comparable items at WholeFoods. Prices definitely are not comparable to NYC Chinatown.

So, is the original article really even correct about this?

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#54

Post by ithinkinstereo »

metaphorm wrote: post #33

this rarely gets mentioned in these articles but it's extremely important. The Chinese food culture is substantially different than the Western food culture, and I don't just mean the items on the menu. Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked. They have created a market that is effi…

> Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked.

That's not strictly true. There are plenty of classical Chinese dishes - many of them family type dishes - that are composed of raw vegetables.

Also pickling is pretty big in Chinese cuisine, but I guess that's not "raw" in the technical sense.

Lastly, Chinese people love raw seafood - sushi, oysters, etc.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#55

Post by bgun »

pm90 wrote: post #32
throw9966 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this model works & keeps prices low, there is nothing to disrupt here. Similar like the Indian Dabbawala network. The Dabbawala System: On-Time Delivery, Every Time http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=38410 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala

It works only as long as there are more Dabbawallas willing to do what they do. Once their kids (or grandkids) decide they can earn more/do other professions...who will deliver the lunch?

Instacart (or some other middleman). Prices will go up as India develops. The same is happening in Chinatown; the children of these shopkeepers are not as willing to stand in line at the warehouse at 3am, nor many of the myriad other unsavory chores to which their parents were accustomed.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#56

Post by throw9966 »

pm90 wrote: post #32
throw9966 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this model works & keeps prices low, there is nothing to disrupt here. Similar like the Indian Dabbawala network. The Dabbawala System: On-Time Delivery, Every Time http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=38410 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala

It works only as long as there are more Dabbawallas willing to do what they do. Once their kids (or grandkids) decide they can earn more/do other professions...who will deliver the lunch?

It has been 125 years since this started and I dont see it stopping in the near future. And why do you think "their kids (or grandkids) will continue the same profession as their parents ?

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#57

Post by rb808 »

A lot of Asian supermarkets have great fish at low prices. I'd like to think its because of informal network of small independent local producers but I suspect its illegally caught by sketchy fishing fleets. Can anyone put my mind at ease?

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#58

Post by frandroid »

rosser wrote: post #28
technotony wrote: post #2

Fascinating. I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for a tech startup to replicate this network more generally. I could see the network connecting the sellers with the farmers directly, plus coordinating delivery of the veggies... it's an easier problem than ubereats delivery as you've got fewer nodes. Maybe you even skip the sellers entirely, which basically gets you to CSA boxes but those always felt expensive to…

If the people running these shops are eschewing credit cards as part of their cost-cutting, what could possibly possess you to think that "disrupting" them with some other form of middle-man is going to play here?

> I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for a tech startup to replicate this network more generally.

The goal is not to compete with Chinatown grocers, but to move their model to other markets.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#59

Post by Isamu »

See also cheap bulk spices at Indian markets. They are a goldmine for stuff that can be costly elsewhere, even if you are not interested in Indian cuisine.

My theory is that, in addition to having the right connections for cheap import, their customer base probably demands a certain price point for bulk spices.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#60

Post by dxbydt »

Ha! I figured out the reason even before I read the whole article... always a gratifying feeling. That said, there are tons of food hacks if you want to save 30-40% and have a strong stomach. Buy your cashews, cumin seeds, turmeric, groundnuts, papayas, guavas from the nearby Indian store - there's tons of them in CA. Most of these are sourced from Fiji, Philippines, India etc, whereas Safeway would source cumin from Oregon and charge $5 per ounce. You can literally get a whole pound of cumin for that price - but no, you don't get the "organic certification", or the bar code or the USDA assurance sticker or anything that lets you know where the cumin came from in case you get some food poisoning and want to lodge a complaint. The Indian store lady dips into a giant cumin bottle and pours out a pound of cumin and takes $5 cash and no sales tax ofcourse wink wink. So yeah, depends on your ethics and cash situation. Say you want a little pep in your walk and like some extra endurance - used to be ephedra was legal and you could pop into your Chevron foodmart and buy a pill. Now it's no longer legal, so you go to the Chinese store and get the strongest ephedra tea - free market ftw. Ofcourse if you brew something strong and land up in the hospital, the medic can't really help you since who knows where that tea came from and what else is in it. Literally no American supermarket can compete with an Indian store when it comes to say cashews. Your Target gives you two pounds of cashews for $15. The Indian store gives you two kgs... that's 4.4 pounds! Ofcourse it won't come in a nice airtight jar with feel-good marketing on why you must eat your servings of USDA nuts for optimum health - instead, it's going to be wrapped up in a cone made of newspaper.

If you have a "tropical palate" and a strong stomach, you should definitely try some of these shady joints. It's a trip.

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