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NeoVim 0.2.0 released

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Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#51
post #23

I have been using Vim as my primary editor for many years and am happy with it. People I know who use developer editors are split between Vim and Emacs. Neovim usage is minimal. Why? It is an honest question. I see developers of the editor happy, which is a good thing, but IMO to get more users NV must show why it is better from a user perspective -- have several demos on the powerful things easily achieved with NV t…

I use Vim with a customized `.vimfile`, but rarely if ever do I tinker with a lot of plugins. If I'm doing "development", then usually I'm using a JetBrains IDE product with the IdeaVim plugin. If I'm in vanilla Vim, then it's because I'm just doing text editing from a shell, and have no need for a lot of plugins.

This is anecdotal speculation, but I imagine that most Vim users are in a similar boat. I talk to so many lifelong Vim users who have never even heard of "pathogen" or other plugin management systems. I'm pretty sure that heavy plugin users are the minority.

Most people who seem excited about NeoVim (or even talk about it at all), fall into three categories:

1) Heavy plugin users, who want plugins with some feature not well-supported by Vim.

2) Developers who would like to embed Vim within their own applications, but find the classic Vim codebase or license unsuitable for this.

3) "Ideologues". People who don't like Bram Moolenaar. People who wish he would have accepted a pull request that he declined or ignored. People who wish he would release Vim more frequently, make it more trendy, or bloat it up with this or that new feature. People who just don't like the way that the Vim project is run, ideologically speaking. (EDIT: i.e. the brigade crowd who's downvoting every comment that isn't unqualified praise and support for NeoVim.)

So like I said, I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of Vim users do not fall into category #1. And the other two categories are tiny subsets of that first one. So to turn the question around... why WOULD people go out of their way to abandon the default, and flock to something else which might drift away from compatibility over time?

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#52
post #4

I'm currently using vim and I'm quite happy with it. I don't use many plugins, so better support for plugins is not very helpful to me. Are there other reasons why I should switch to Neovim?

Faster startup, mouse works as you'd expect in a regular desktop app. Switch panes, tabs, open new tab, scroll panes, resize panes, select ranges, all in the terminal. I know not using the mouse is one of the reasons why one would choose vim, but the mouse really is faster/more intuitive in some situations.

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#53
post #23

I have been using Vim as my primary editor for many years and am happy with it. People I know who use developer editors are split between Vim and Emacs. Neovim usage is minimal. Why? It is an honest question. I see developers of the editor happy, which is a good thing, but IMO to get more users NV must show why it is better from a user perspective -- have several demos on the powerful things easily achieved with NV t…

> Neovim usage is minimal. I don't know how much it is used, but what are you basing that claim on?

It's clear from the context that he's talking about people he knows, not usage in general.

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without neovim, vim wouldn't have gotten the async features. The fact that it's a community driven project and not dictated by one single BDFL makes it a lot more sympathetic for me.

Vim is also community driven. Having a BDFL doesn't mean that the model is bad. Python, Linux all have BDFLs and they are blossoming. Also, saying that Vim wouldn't have gotten the async features without Neovim is wrong. It would have come in sooner or later, Neovim sure made it a priority.

The main reason NeoVim exists at all is because Bram Moolenaar refused to accept any patches for async support. People already did the work for him and he didn't want it.

So they decided to write their own text editor that supported async plugins. Bram got butthurt and didn't want to lose a large portion of his user base, so he added async support.

NeoVim's first public release (version 0.1) was released in December 2015. [0] And you can see that Vim development really picked up in early 2016. [1]

Coincidence?

Anyway, both text editors are awesome, and Vim is better off now that it has competition. The async features would never have come without the competition of a rival project.

[0] https://neovim.io/news/2015/december/ [1] https://github.com/vim/vim/graphs/contributors

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#55
post #23

I have been using Vim as my primary editor for many years and am happy with it. People I know who use developer editors are split between Vim and Emacs. Neovim usage is minimal. Why? It is an honest question. I see developers of the editor happy, which is a good thing, but IMO to get more users NV must show why it is better from a user perspective -- have several demos on the powerful things easily achieved with NV t…

The simple answer is probably the correct one. It's not included by default in any distributions.

Debian (albeit only stretch) has it.

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#56
post #23

I have been using Vim as my primary editor for many years and am happy with it. People I know who use developer editors are split between Vim and Emacs. Neovim usage is minimal. Why? It is an honest question. I see developers of the editor happy, which is a good thing, but IMO to get more users NV must show why it is better from a user perspective -- have several demos on the powerful things easily achieved with NV t…

> Neovim usage is minimal. I don't know how much it is used, but what are you basing that claim on?

As I said -- just personal observations of software developers and engineers I cross paths with.

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#58
post #35
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly for me the main reason was that it finally has builtin `:terminal`. The plugins for use with vim have always been slightly buggy for me.

Can you please elaborate how you make use of the built in terminal emulation of neovim? Whenever I see a mention I think "neat" but have yet to integrate it into my workflow.

Stuff like fzf (https://github.com/junegunn/fzf) works nicer with terminal emulation.

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#59
The efforts of Neovim team are well-intentioned and we are seeing it shaking the ViM development. (the previous major version from (7.0) 2006, before it (6.0) 2001).

We love updates after all.

Re: NeoVim 0.2.0 released

#60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe neovim-remote is what you want? https://github.com/mhinz/neovim-remote

Close, but not enough. I want to open the same editor session spread across multiple windows on multiple monitors.

Can't you do that with tmux?
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