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The End of Men

theatlantic.com

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Re: The End of Men

#51

Post by axle »

rubashov wrote: post #32
axle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is really that you likely have not been anything else apart from a male WASP. See, there is no institution working against you. These things you are complaining about not getting are not the main product, they are shortcuts. A scholarship is not the normal way of studying, it's a shortcut way, for people who have something working against them. A woman (and a black guy) have institutions against them. The…

> the white will likely get more jobs than the black guy. All else held equal, that is simply not true in modern America. There are very powerful incentives to hire the equivalently qualified black guy in order to avoid lawsuits. Anyway, all this affirmative action stuff will have to be dismantled in the next twenty years when whites are a minority. It will simply become impossible for institutions to function if the…

An the lawsuits are there because people recognized that if the place were left as it were, discrimination would persist.

Re: The End of Men

#52

Post by Eliezer »

lukev wrote: post #34

Who gives a crap? Even if there are measurable statistical differences in competence at various activities between the sexes (which is far from proven), the average variation between two individuals is far, far more than the average variation between the sexes at large. In other words, treat people like the individuals and stop ANY form of discrimination based on irrelevant categories, sex-based or otherwise. Also, t…

> the average variation between two individuals is far, far more than the average variation between the sexes at large

You might want to stop and think about how the world would have to look for the above statement not to be true. I don't think it's as strong as you think it is.

Re: The End of Men

#53

Post by hugh3 »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #45
ontheroad wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's funny, because it seems to me like the entirety of white males have some sort of superiority complex.

As a human, it seems to me like other humans, especially those who identify as part of a group, have some sort of superiority complex.

I'm so glad I'm better than those identifying-as-part-of-a-group people!

Re: The End of Men

#54

Post by brg »

ontheroad wrote: post #39
sbt wrote: post #13

being a white male sometimes feels like the entire fucking universe is suffering from some sort of inferiority complex.

that's funny, because it seems to me like the entirety of white males have some sort of superiority complex.

My family has had no problems in the US, but we constantly hear about how hard it is from first generation children looking for an excuse to as why they haven't succeeded as much as their immigrant parents.

But the truth is that too many first generation continue to lament fictional externalities while current immigrants continue to succeed.

Re: The End of Men

#55

Post by ovi256 »

codingthewheel wrote: post #25

This article is okay, somewhat sexist. I'm surprised it passed the first round of editorial review. Imagine the uproar if a man published an article flirting with "the end of women" in a major publication. This is a feminist claptrap with a lot of anger behind it, and intended to push buttons. It amounts to "girls are better than boys HAHA!" I'm quite sure men will do just fine over the coming decades, thank you kind…

She seems to be having an agenda, feminist claptrap or not, but what about the simple facts that she cites ?

Re: The End of Men

#56

Post by lukev »

Eliezer wrote: post #52
lukev wrote: post #34

Who gives a crap? Even if there are measurable statistical differences in competence at various activities between the sexes (which is far from proven), the average variation between two individuals is far, far more than the average variation between the sexes at large. In other words, treat people like the individuals and stop ANY form of discrimination based on irrelevant categories, sex-based or otherwise. Also, t…

> the average variation between two individuals is far, far more than the average variation between the sexes at large You might want to stop and think about how the world would have to look for the above statement not to be true. I don't think it's as strong as you think it is.

I didn't intend it to be a strong point. It's actually more of a truism.

But you'd never know it from reading the subject article, so I felt it needed to be restated.

Re: The End of Men

#57

Post by rada »

codingthewheel wrote: post #25

This article is okay, somewhat sexist. I'm surprised it passed the first round of editorial review. Imagine the uproar if a man published an article flirting with "the end of women" in a major publication. This is a feminist claptrap with a lot of anger behind it, and intended to push buttons. It amounts to "girls are better than boys HAHA!" I'm quite sure men will do just fine over the coming decades, thank you kind…

I am surprised you saw the article as angry. I've read it as being very sympathetic towards boys and men. I thought it factually presented the decline of male participation in college and at work as well as in family life and sounded an alarm at what's happening. All the anecdotes were along the lines of, what do we do to involve men more?

Re: The End of Men

#58

Post by doron »

nerme wrote: post #27

On the bright side, I don't think many people reading Hacker News fall in to the category of brutish, construction worker-type. :) I did work construction when I was younger, and I must say, I enjoyed it immensely. I always love to help out someone build a shed or throw up some drywall. It's just plain fun to build things with your hands, even if you're mainly doing the work with your finger-tips these days.

Not to say that physical work is always great, in fact many times it isn't, but i find the devaluation of it a little troubling, I did physical work on and off several years, there is immense value and satisfaction in building and creating with your hands.

Re: The End of Men

#59

Post by Groxx »

axle wrote: post #49
yummyfajitas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go somewhere, and they are instantly assumed to be less competent. That's a correct assumption for many groups (e.g., college students) due to the effects of affirmative action. By lowering the standards/imposing quotas for group X, that group will probably not meet the higher standards of everyone else. Thus, everyone will have to assume that members of X are less competent. Oh, to answer your question: if I co…

Well, good for you, because being Black in america is a choice. You can choose to select black as your race. Why not do it? You would have the advantages of affirmative action and none of the disadvntages of actually having black skin. Surely the perks are worth crossing that 'black' checkbox in the forms?

You can choose to select black as your race.

How, precisely, is this true? Aside from giving yourself cancer via tanning-bed-overdose? The first person to see you would notice you lied on your form. Not typically good for getting hired.

Re: The End of Men

#60

Post by cia_plant »

rubashov wrote: post #43
Alex3917 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not it doesn't. The Hart & Risley study the article is addressing looked at the possible influence of genes, and found that the maximum influence they could have over verbal ability was maybe 20-30%. (I don't have the book in front of me, so I don't know the exact amount, but it was relatively small.)

I don't know anything about genes and "verbal ability" studies. But the cold hard fact is that IQ is highly genetically heritable and is very strongly correlated to schooling and professional outcomes. Look, we can strip babies away from their parents en masse and force them into "optimal upbringing" experiments, as perhaps you are suggesting. Or, we can celebrate diversity and acknowledge that different groups of pe…

"heritable" does not mean "determined by genetics" FYI.
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