Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

arxiv.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–57 of 57 posts

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#51

Post by DonaldFisk »

euyyn wrote: post #45
runeks wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly -- and perhaps obviously -- I'm not a physicist. But as far as I can see, once we've defined length and time in terms of the speed of light, the speed of light is constant, by definition. The speed of light can never change after this, because it would be observed as all lengths/units of time changing. Consciousness can't change either, because a change in consciousness changes everything that is experienc…

But we also use the speed of light to define other units after we found out, by experiment, that it was indeed constant.

It was inevitable that it was measured to be constant. You need to build a measuring apparatus out of physical matter and use its physical properties to measure things. Use of any reasonable measuring apparatus will have the built-in assumption that c and h are constant, and either particle masses or G is constant, allowing you to measure combinations of lengths, times, and masses.

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#52

Post by euyyn »

DonaldFisk wrote: post #51
euyyn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we also use the speed of light to define other units after we found out, by experiment, that it was indeed constant.

It was inevitable that it was measured to be constant. You need to build a measuring apparatus out of physical matter and use its physical properties to measure things. Use of any reasonable measuring apparatus will have the built-in assumption that c and h are constant, and either particle masses or G is constant, allowing you to measure combinations of lengths, times, and masses.

> Use of any reasonable measuring apparatus will have the built-in assumption that c and h are constant

The speed of light was measured constant by the famous Michelson-Morley experiment, whose apparatus didn't have any built-in assumption about c (nor had anything to do with h).

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#53

Post by unhammer »

selimthegrim wrote: post #25
akyu wrote: post #24

The math in this paper is beyond your average Hacker News poster. So no wonder these comments are just name calling.

Scott Aaronson left a smoking hole where Tononi's theories used to be not too long ago. If you want quantum theorizing about consciousness I suggest you start here instead - https://www.quantamagazine.org/20161102-quantum-neuroscience...

Thanks for the pointer, I assume you meant http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1799 ? That was a fun read anyway :-)

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#54

Post by dafash »

irickt wrote: post #3

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=6551 >>> Tegmark’s career is a rather unusual story, mixing reputable science with an increasingly strong taste for grandiose nonsense. In this book he indulges his inner crank, describing in detail an utterly empty vision of the “ultimate nature of reality.”

One has to pay attention very closely to Mr. Tegmark's presentations. He will state very eloquently a number of facts, and then slip in subtly a very important fundamental assumption upon which all of his subsequent statements are built.

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#55

Post by DonaldFisk »

euyyn wrote: post #52
DonaldFisk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was inevitable that it was measured to be constant. You need to build a measuring apparatus out of physical matter and use its physical properties to measure things. Use of any reasonable measuring apparatus will have the built-in assumption that c and h are constant, and either particle masses or G is constant, allowing you to measure combinations of lengths, times, and masses.

> Use of any reasonable measuring apparatus will have the built-in assumption that c and h are constant The speed of light was measured constant by the famous Michelson-Morley experiment, whose apparatus didn't have any built-in assumption about c (nor had anything to do with h).

The Michelson-Morley Experiment showed that light velocity had the same magnitude in different directions.

One metre is defined to be the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299 792 458 seconds. Therefore, c = 299 792 458 metres per second. The second is defined in terms of the frequency of electromagnetic radiation emitted during a transition between two specific states in a caesium atom. In other words, it's a unit of time as measured on a kind of atomic clock, which by convention is constant.

It's an open question whether a second on a pendulum clock is the same as one measured on an atomic clock for all time, as that depends on G.

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#56

Post by Fjolsvith »

runeks wrote: post #42
thriftwy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unmeasurable Says who? > basis of all experience Your consciousness is only base of your own experience. For other people your consciousness is only hypothesis to be studied. > In all frameworks there must be some unquestionable property I would like to study consciousness outside of frameworks where it is unquestionable - just as we can do it in e.g. classical mechanics with speed of light.

Admittedly -- and perhaps obviously -- I'm not a physicist. But as far as I can see, once we've defined length and time in terms of the speed of light, the speed of light is constant, by definition. The speed of light can never change after this, because it would be observed as all lengths/units of time changing. Consciousness can't change either, because a change in consciousness changes everything that is experienc…

I have alluded in other places of the benefits of a meditative practice. One I have experienced is being "awake" in my dreams. Having a continuous stream of consciousness through my nights of sleep.

I am able to control my actions during and the outcomes of the situations I dream about, and fully recall them after waking.

Re: Consciousness as a State of Matter (2014)

#57

Post by omarchowdhury »

dafash wrote: post #54
irickt wrote: post #3

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=6551 >>> Tegmark’s career is a rather unusual story, mixing reputable science with an increasingly strong taste for grandiose nonsense. In this book he indulges his inner crank, describing in detail an utterly empty vision of the “ultimate nature of reality.”

One has to pay attention very closely to Mr. Tegmark's presentations. He will state very eloquently a number of facts, and then slip in subtly a very important fundamental assumption upon which all of his subsequent statements are built.

Hey let me know your email if you'd like to talk about how LSD is affecting your life after it opened a spiritual realm for you as you said.
Post reply on HN