Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 155 posts

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#51

Post by adventured »

kolbe wrote: post #15
marricks wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like money better spent to me than the 5 trillion dollars in global fossil fuel subsidies in 2015, or 500 billion just in the US[1] That 5 billion number for Musk I think is a grand total of all subsidies, spanning all time. [1] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X16...

I don't have to click any like to know that the US did not spend $5t on fossil fuel subsidies. I'm pretty sure the US only spent like $5t total in 2015, and most of that is in medicare and social security.

That $5 trillion figure isn't actually spending at all. It's entirely an invented figure, meant to supposedly cover all estimated environment damage for example. Really what it's meant to do, is be massive enough to enable people to throw it around when arguing in favor of obliterating the fossil fuel industry.

Why does the invented aspect matter? Because it's comical. It leads to the premise that over just the next 10 years, the subsidies are a likely cumulative ... $56 trillion or so (about 20%-25% of all wealth on earth). Aka, greater than the combined profit of every oil company in world history going back ~140 years.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#52

Post by WillPostForFood »

idbehold wrote: post #22
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

Not really. Go look at the tax-rates of the 1950's. The only way he was able to acquire that much money was because of the infrastructure paid for by tax revenue. The only reason he wasn't robbed by someone else was because of the law enforcement paid for by tax revenue. I could go on, but I think you get the point. His wealth is built upon the shoulders of tax revenue.

After you look at the tax rates of the 1950's, go look at the tax code. The nominal rates were higher, but there were many more ways to shelter your money.

In 1958, the top 3% of taxpayers earned 14.7% of all adjusted gross income and paid 29.2% of all federal income taxes. In 2010, the top 3% earned 27.2% of adjusted gross income and their share of all federal taxes rose proportionally, to 51%

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324705104578151...

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#53

Post by embro »

submeta wrote: post #7

On the other hand this: "Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies" http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...

Most big companies do get some form of subsidies. Tesla is nearly 30,000 jobs in the US alone. 5 Billions is not much for such a big company.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#54

Post by gozur88 »

WJW wrote: post #25
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

For the US maybe. Income tax in the Netherlands (my country) in the top bracket is 52%. On the second hand, we have no capital gains tax so he might come out ahead when exercising options. On the third hand, we have a wealth tax of 1.2% on your entire capital above a certain floor (of about 20k) so he might not come out ahead in the end. It's always interesting to see the opinions of different cultures about how much…

I'm not sure if the figure in the piece is only federal tax, but if so there's another 13% for California state taxes.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#55

Post by matt_wulfeck »

WJW wrote: post #25
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

For the US maybe. Income tax in the Netherlands (my country) in the top bracket is 52%. On the second hand, we have no capital gains tax so he might come out ahead when exercising options. On the third hand, we have a wealth tax of 1.2% on your entire capital above a certain floor (of about 20k) so he might not come out ahead in the end. It's always interesting to see the opinions of different cultures about how much…

Not bad, but doesn't that come with social services like free medical care and greatly subsidized education?

Here in he US the middle income pays taxes and receives almost no directive social benefit, as most social programs are geared towards lower income and the rich can afford accountants and lawyers to keep their tax burden very light.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#56

Post by accountyaccount »

user5994461 wrote: post #26
SEJeff wrote: post #10

Not sure about everyone else, but I'd love to have this problem. Oh I have to pay $593 million in taxes? Boo hoo, let me cry all the way to the bank to write the check.

Imagine that you are a GAFA CEO 2 years before you IPO and you are asked to pay 593 millions based on the estimated value of your shares.

I keep trying to imagine it, but I can't get past the part where I'm excited about having hundreds of millions of dollars.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#57

Post by eastWestMath »

maratd wrote: post #42
bsbechtel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Figuratively speaking, what can you do with 747M that you can't do with 300M? Invest in starting brain-computer interface and rocket companies

And I believe a boring company, hyperloop, other efforts in AI, etc. A more substantive question is how that money would be spent by the relevant parties. I would argue that Musk would spend it better than the federal government and as such, he should have it.

Then you'd end up having a fairly stupid argument about the semantics of "better".

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#58

Post by aanm1988 »

throwaway999a wrote: post #36

It's very strange how people now seem to feel like they are entitled to see the tax returns of public or well-known figures. Tax returns are nobody else's business! Would you demand to see their medical records as well? The implicit subtext (especially with highly successful people like Musk) is that we do this to "make sure they pay their fair share". Here's the reality: the top 1% of US tax filers pay nearly half o…

That's fine. I still want them to pay more.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#59

Post by cprayingmantis »

throwaway999a wrote: post #36

It's very strange how people now seem to feel like they are entitled to see the tax returns of public or well-known figures. Tax returns are nobody else's business! Would you demand to see their medical records as well? The implicit subtext (especially with highly successful people like Musk) is that we do this to "make sure they pay their fair share". Here's the reality: the top 1% of US tax filers pay nearly half o…

I'm not sure that I would like to see their medical records but there was a lot of talk about medical records for public figures this past election cycle in the USA. It went so far that Mrs. Clinton offered up her records for review. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/politics/clinton-campaign-rele...

The truth is if you're going to be a public figure like a CEO or Elected Official you better be ready to give up some if not all of your privacy.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#60

Post by 824ueirwfjd »

jedberg wrote: post #48
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

He lives in California. 9% of that was to the state.

13.3% actually... this is why I don't understand why anyone starts a company in California when you can go to other states like WA that have no income tax
Post reply on HN