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The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

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Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#51

Post by anewday »

douche wrote: post #38
RodericDay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate advertising. However, I think a glib dismissal like this one underrates the power of ads a lot, and for me it's important to not underestimate my adversary. Sure, when I research virtually anything for myself, down to soy sauce or toothbrushes, I will literally go and seek out reviews and do some legwork. The real question is what happens when you are in a pinch. You're driving to your brother's house for dinn…

If it's a nephew, and they are old enough to not asphyxiate themselves, then the obvious answer is always Lego. Little boys fucking love Legos.

Lego is great. But don't forget that this is also an idea that is shaped by advertising: why is Lego not for girls? Why do girls need pink blocks with figures that wear make up? Why this genderification?

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#52

Post by cousin_it »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #47
cousin_it wrote: post #22

This seems like another example of bad stuff happening for game-theoretic reasons, so individual action won't help, the only solution is regulation. Ban tracking for a start. It's similar to banning outdoor billboard ads, which many places have done with good results.

How does the USA ban tracking on a website hosted in Germany?

There will always be edge cases, but law enforcement on the internet is surprisingly possible. Look up the EU cookie law and GDPR.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#53

Post by lazyjones »

charles-salvia wrote: post #43

Ads are definitely a huge problem, but it seems they are at least equally, perhaps even less of a contributor to bloat than the tons of off-the-shelf Javascript frameworks/libraries major websites throw in to perform analytics, or to implement stock features like user-comments, login, social-media stuff, etc. I mean, just looking at the network resources for a fresh download of www.cnn.com, I see: livefyre_base.js, 1…

> Ads are definitely a huge problem, but it seems they are at least equally, perhaps even less of a contributor to bloat than the tons of off-the-shelf Javascript frameworks/libraries major websites throw in to perform analytics

If you look at how this works out when you reload such a page just once, you'll see that you're wrong. The frameworks are heavy, but they are cached and typically only contribute to parsing delays etc., but ads load every time you visit the page and often the JS involved isn't cached, nor minified/gzipped.

Try a "repeat view" with webpagetest.org, for example.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#54

Post by trumbitta2 »

It's all smiles and sunshine, until you choose 13px as the font-size for this post.

It's right then, that it happens. You made a good point about lightweight, text-driven web, but didn't care to use a saner 16px for the font-size.

And so you instantly become a stereotype in my eyes. The old guy shaking his fists at modern hipster web.

See this for an example of a lightweight site with a good design and readability: http://www.zeldman.com/

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#55

Post by oliwarner »

exelius wrote: post #23
frogfuzion wrote: post #20

This is a repost. I'm guessing due to the blowup of the electron post. There is no right answer. A huge fat bloated website can be successful (see BuzzFeed for the general population), or a lightweight text based informational website can be successful (see hacker news for you guys). Same thing for the electron debate. A bloated web app ported to desktop could just be as successful as a native app and vice versa. The…

It was never about the code. It was always about the products.

"Never" isn't accurate though. If you step away from vapid content sites for a minute, to a place where real money and products are exchanged, there are strong cases for load time affecting the likelihood of purchase or cart abandonment, or whether they'll resubscribe to your SaaS.

It does largely depends on how much the user thinks they specifically need you but if it's between your flabby website, taking seconds to load each page, and a competitor's fast website, you can bet you're losing money to them, even if they're slightly more expensive.

Slow websites frustrate users and look unprofessional.

I know this article is aimed squarely at content but articles like this lead to people making silly comments —like the one I'm replying to— that make absolute statements about all web development, all the time.

Of course some schmoos can get away with some bloat, but that's very different from saying it's only the product that matters.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#56

Post by moron4hire »

trumbitta2 wrote: post #54

It's all smiles and sunshine, until you choose 13px as the font-size for this post. It's right then, that it happens. You made a good point about lightweight, text-driven web, but didn't care to use a saner 16px for the font-size. And so you instantly become a stereotype in my eyes. The old guy shaking his fists at modern hipster web. See this for an example of a lightweight site with a good design and readability: h…

The meaning of "13px" on a website is completely up to you. All CSS units are relative.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#57

Post by exelius »

lmm wrote: post #29
exelius wrote: post #25

Agree 100%. Advertising is a zero sum game. If an advertiser's budget is $5, they will spend $5. They will spend $5 on as many dumb ads as they can get, and they will spend that $5 using very targeted means if available. There's a tremendous amount of effort expended in the ad industry with very little real effect than to direct ad dollars through that platform and maybe provide a temporary lift to response rates. Bu…

Advertising is not remotely zero-sum, as your own electric razor example demonstrates. Better targeting is win-win-win - the advertiser doesn't want to advertise something you have no interest in buying, you don't want to see an ad for something you have no interest in buying, and the site doesn't want to be associated with irrelevant ads either.

It is in relation to ad budgets.

Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years; more adtech doesn't lead to better conversion -- it's just smoke and mirrors so as networks can justify rates without the return ("but wait, this new feature will boost your campaigns by 5%!")

Also consider that the #1 advertising category (automobiles) are about to head off a cliff in the next decade... there's a reason Wall Street thinks Tesla (whose 10 year plans are almost certainly to stop selling cars to consumers and operate a ride sharing platform) is more valuable than Ford.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#58

Post by lmm »

exelius wrote: post #57
lmm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising is not remotely zero-sum, as your own electric razor example demonstrates. Better targeting is win-win-win - the advertiser doesn't want to advertise something you have no interest in buying, you don't want to see an ad for something you have no interest in buying, and the site doesn't want to be associated with irrelevant ads either.

It is in relation to ad budgets. Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years; more adtech doesn't lead to better conversion -- it's just smoke and mirrors so as networks can justify rates without the return ("but wait, this new feature will boost your campaigns by 5%!") Also consider that the #1 advertising category (automobiles) are about to head off a cliff in the next decade... t…

> It is in relation to ad budgets.

Ad budgets are not fixed universal constants. If advertising becomes more effective then companies can and should spend more on it (and vice versa if it becomes less effective).

> Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years

The fact that the OP remembered their electric razor example suggests otherwise.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#59

Post by exelius »

lmm wrote: post #58
exelius wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in relation to ad budgets. Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years; more adtech doesn't lead to better conversion -- it's just smoke and mirrors so as networks can justify rates without the return ("but wait, this new feature will boost your campaigns by 5%!") Also consider that the #1 advertising category (automobiles) are about to head off a cliff in the next decade... t…

> It is in relation to ad budgets. Ad budgets are not fixed universal constants. If advertising becomes more effective then companies can and should spend more on it (and vice versa if it becomes less effective). > Consumers only have so much attention span. It's been over-saturated for years The fact that the OP remembered their electric razor example suggests otherwise.

Ad budgets kinda are fixed. That's how large ad buyers operate -- a product has a certain marketing budget, and an expected lift for a campaign. If you get more than that lift, you get a bonus. Less, meh, it happens (more often than not actually).

I only remembered the razor ad because my immediate thought was "wow what a terrible ad" (and I work in this stuff). Can't tell you what brand of razors it was for.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#60

Post by exelius »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #33
exelius wrote: post #25

Agree 100%. Advertising is a zero sum game. If an advertiser's budget is $5, they will spend $5. They will spend $5 on as many dumb ads as they can get, and they will spend that $5 using very targeted means if available. There's a tremendous amount of effort expended in the ad industry with very little real effect than to direct ad dollars through that platform and maybe provide a temporary lift to response rates. Bu…

Even if you hadn't bought one yet, would you ever choose a specific product based on an ad? I wouldn't. Best thing an ad can do to me is remind me I need something in a category, then I'll go around internet comparing products and grab the one that looks best, especially with a product like an electric razor. Companies should be investing in making good products so that when someone remembers they need something, the…

Easier to just rebadge some crap from China and buy the positive reviews.
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