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Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

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51–60 of 105 posts

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#51
post #50

geohot's gonna be all fired-up.

kinda funny since we was very anti mobileye and said they didn't know what they were doing and claimed he was gonna be the ceo of a billion dollar company etc and then the gov shuts him down immediately and mobileye gets acquired for 16B. dude needs to get back to hacking iphones it seems.

Just because they got acquired doesn't mean he wasn't right about their tech.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#52
Their plan is probably to build machine learning/autonomous driving chips combining Intel's own chips/expertise, FPGA (as with their Altera acquisition) and specialist ML chips (like Movidius that they bought recently).

$16B for Mobilieye as a route to market (they already have the relationships and supply chains set up with car manufacturing) sounds like a lot but Intel needs a fast track if they want to compete with Nvidia (and ARM and Qualcomm) in that space.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#53
post #31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The split was caused by Tesla pushing targets that Mobileye was not comfortable with. I don't think we know enough about the situation without a report from someone inside the company but it's a little extreme to call them Tesla's table scraps.

Autopilot is floundering in the absence of Mobileye. It will take Tesla a while before their much more expensive hardware suite with 8 cameras and a Px drive chip (just the chip is worth a few thousand dollars) can match the performance of Mobileye's EyeQ3 and single camera.

Tesla would have been stuck at level 2/3 with Mobileye. With PX2 you have enough compute power to do much more, and a mature and rapidly developing GPGPU ecosystem (CUDA for ML, SLAM, SfM etc). I do think Nvidia is going to have to bring the price of PX2 down significantly though if they want mass market adoption.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#55
post #9

Intel has made acquisitions of almost $40 billion in the past couple of years. It will be interesting to see if they can make this money back as competition becomes more fierce in the PC and server markets because of AMD and Qualcomm.

They have 95%+ marketshare in server chips. They have an enormous manufacturing advantage. Even though they charge so much for their chips if they feel threatened by Ryzen they can just lower the price of their chips to Ryzen prices because they have a manufacturing advantage. It will just hurt their margins. 40-50% margins forever seem pretty absurd from a pure economics perspective.

> if they feel threatened by Ryzen they can just lower the price of their chips to Ryzen prices because they have a manufacturing advantage.

If it would've been so easy, they would've done it with Atom in the mobile market. But it wasn't. Intel was losing $1 billion a quarter in mobile just to be competitive on price.

Intel absolutely lacks the cost structure to compete with Qualcomm's ARM chips, and that has already been proven. It's not a theory.

As for Ryzen, they can lower prices, but not by as much as you may think. Lowering prices is directly proportional with how many people Intel will have to fire to accommodate for a slightly lower cost structure that's more competitive with AMD.

For every 10% average reduction in price, Intel may have to fire at least a few thousand employees (across divisions, but more likely by gutting some non-profitable research projects, in the beginning).

However, those layoffs will also look bad on Intel's public image, so don't expect Intel to lower prices strategically across product lines to compete against AMD without serious consideration. But I really don't expect them to lower their average price point by more than 10% for the next few years, until Intel comes out with a more "streamlined" (fewer features) microarchitecture, that's more cost-effective to build.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#57
post #52

Their plan is probably to build machine learning/autonomous driving chips combining Intel's own chips/expertise, FPGA (as with their Altera acquisition) and specialist ML chips (like Movidius that they bought recently). $16B for Mobilieye as a route to market (they already have the relationships and supply chains set up with car manufacturing) sounds like a lot but Intel needs a fast track if they want to compete wit…

Also of note is that MobileEye is the company that built the sensor and software suite for Telsa's Autopilot generation 1 system. Tesla threw it away due to disagreements and Tesla now uses Nvidia Drive PX 2 (a customized version no doubt) for the number crunching and their own camera suite.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#58
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It don't believe we're headed into any kind of AI trough. Very exciting things are happening in the field of deep learning, and the people who are best at understanding and applying all that new theory and research are kids who never leave the lab. Drive.ai is an autonomous driving startup that's made up of mostly unknown Stanford AI lab labmates who dropped out of their PHD programs to build an autonomous OS, and wh…

I'll just be upfront, I'm a total pessimist on the near-term possibility of autonomous driving. >I don't believe we're headed into any kind of AI trough. Why? AI winter is a well-known phenomenon, AI hype has permeated tech, now business and is starting to push into the layman's consciousness. Does it not seem that a bust is near? The laymans perception of autonomous driving is a magic box that will drive them around…

I don't know what people mean when they say 'the near-term possibility of autonomous driving'. Some people mean a car that can go everywhere and do everything a human can. I'm thinking about robotaxis in the Bay area that drive along established circuits and do pick-ups and drop offs in designated zones like bus stops. That's what I'm expecting to see in the 5 year time frame, and being able to apply autonomous driving technology to that limited extent opens a very lucrative new market.

Any way you look at the autonomous driving problem it's a hard problem, but every few days it seems there's some paper coming out that demos a new optimization to one aspect or another of the autonomous vehicle development pipeline.

The world of modular deep learning systems, where you have various parent and child subsystems that can be quickly trained and swapped out is very much an open and field of research and my bet is on agile teams that can build and test models faster, and can take things from research to implementation in less time than the competition.

Drive.ai's best trade secret is the system they have for vastly reducing the amount of training data they need to get a result, and vastly reducing the amount of human labour needed to annotate or clean up said training data.

I don't know what the hype is. People are expecting terminator robots or something, that's not going to happen anytime soon. But progress in Machine learning has been steady and driving for a decade and shows know signs of letting up in the forseeable future, because we just keep opening up new frontiers to explore. There's so much to do.

Re: Intel buying Mobileye for up to $16B to expand in self-driving tech

#59
I have to wonder what sort of market size projections support that kind of price for what is essentially an accessory technology. There's a lot of fanciful fantasies about self driving cars floating around, but I'm not familiar with any of them that would support the idea of a growth market compared to today's dumbcar market. Even today, you can buy entire car companies for that kind of money.
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