Right. Let's just delete everything and go back to a world where even more websites are packed full of vulnerabilities, written in spaghetti PHP!
“Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
51–60 of 144 posts
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#52> Summary: Disputes like “Why do I need PHP if there’s Java?” have become more frequent nowadays. I don’t know who’s in the right, Holly Wars are tricky.
Who is this Holly and why are we starting a war over her?
All this talk about "Enterprise over engineering", is all this needed, tool-overload-hell, etc... and I just can't stop thinking about Holly and how to stop the war over her...
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#53I get that this article is satire, but I think the deepest (perhaps) unintentional insight presented by the author's veiled criticism is that the justification for using these tools is presented as "it's 2017" and not as a solution to any particular problem. The issue isn't the 2017 ecosystem, the issue is the 2017 programmer's deference to vanity instead of engineering. All these individual tools exist for a reason,…
It's called "résumé-driven development."
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is a realistic reflection on the state of this area in our industry. It is both sarcastic/a joke and not a joke at all.
Poe's law in full action. If for some reason this is not a joke, it's a pretty lousy tutorial, as for every single arbitrary framework/tool decision here, there's not a single rationale here but "because it's 2017". I'd absolutely prefer 1995's Hello World if it's just about saying "Hello World".
Actually I'd prefer the program just consisted of plain text since that's perfectly valid PHP.
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Poe's law in full action. If for some reason this is not a joke, it's a pretty lousy tutorial, as for every single arbitrary framework/tool decision here, there's not a single rationale here but "because it's 2017". I'd absolutely prefer 1995's Hello World if it's just about saying "Hello World".
I don't think it's a joke, but I also don't think "tutorial" is the right word either. It seems more like an illustrative commentary on the state of the webdev industry.
I think the word you're looking for is "satire".
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#56We’ve gone full circle. Truly look at the PHP code in this article, the JS dependency hell here and in the recent JS article. Look at the code. At the environment. At the libraries. Who isn’t reminded of what Java looked like years ago? We’ve come full circle. ------------------------ Now, if one asks why this is, the answer is pretty simple – enterprise products. To build software of a certain scale, certain technol…
Why is the "enterprise" the culprit? The things you describe have more to do with generational churn, abusing the web as a desktop replacement, and developer's desires to always use the latest stuff as a stepping stone for the next gig, or maybe to convince themselves they're avantgarde when in reality it's mostly boring stuff.
Because, once you start working with complex systems, you’ll require complex frameworks.
That influences the way the entire language goes.
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#57Once you've spent all this time setting up a NodeJS stack.... why use PHP at all? Ie. just use Node for the API/Server, you're already setup, and the stack would be 100% one language.
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#58Maybe I am old fashioned and outdated. I don't know about anyone else, but it makes me pretty sad that the "modern" way as presented in this article is no longer simple and straightforward and has some severe dependency hell. Not that I'm saying the structure of modern web applications isn't needed and that we haven't advanced. Just that the overhead and knowledge required to set up a modern web application is crazy.…
It's usually not advisable, but I genuinely think classical CGI is beautiful mechanism for dynamically generated pages. It's a natural extension of Unix scripting: shebang'd scripts in any language, environment variables, stdout. Job's a good'un.
What is good for developers is bad for the industry. How else would they justify creating frameworks in different languages if all people are doing anyway is writing text to (F)CGI stdout? It is much better for the companies/groups involved to make people believe that there is something wrong with this and that they should really be using a "proper" framework.
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#59Maybe I am old fashioned and outdated. I don't know about anyone else, but it makes me pretty sad that the "modern" way as presented in this article is no longer simple and straightforward and has some severe dependency hell. Not that I'm saying the structure of modern web applications isn't needed and that we haven't advanced. Just that the overhead and knowledge required to set up a modern web application is crazy.…
> I am working on a larger .NET web application in my day job... and it requires things like.. Typescript + typings files, Webpack/Gulp/Grunt/etc. and therefore Node.js and NPM, NuGet, .NET Framework, onion architecture, front-end framework (Angular, or React, or..), Entity Framework, multiple databases, web services/web API, ASP.NET MVC.. I mean, it's just crazy if you step back and think about it. All long as all t…
Although, in the longer term, it is unlikely that these tools and pipelines will remain stable, and the interdependence between them often causes you to have to update one to update the other (especially the more dependencies you're dealing with). I realize that most package managers have a way to deal with this (and via semver/good version practices), but sometimes finding the right stable combination of versions of dependencies is like finding the magic incantation.
Re: “Hello, (real) world” in PHP in 2017
#60I get that this article is satire, but I think the deepest (perhaps) unintentional insight presented by the author's veiled criticism is that the justification for using these tools is presented as "it's 2017" and not as a solution to any particular problem. The issue isn't the 2017 ecosystem, the issue is the 2017 programmer's deference to vanity instead of engineering. All these individual tools exist for a reason,…
It's called "résumé-driven development."
And sadly, in the race to stay competitive, it's all too common.