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The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

economist.com

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Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#52
post #6

What is going on in this world? I was reading news today that the parties on the right side of political spectrum are gaining ground all over Europe. US already has Republicans in power. Every country is becoming more nationalistic. What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this.

For a while, I had thought that the modern world had finally transcended the grip of medieval-minded ignorance. But the medievals didn't go away, and they eventually organized and voted and, in the U.S., got lucky with a system that disproportionately allocates presidential voting power, allowing the GOP to win 3 out of the past 7 elections despite having won the vote only once.

Nation states are an invention of the 19th century.

Give the Middle Ages more credit.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#53

Yeah... Not going to happen. Americans spend billions on European vacations, and nobody is going to threaten that when push comes to shove (any additional hassle is going to send people to Cancun instead). This is just posturing.

There will be in uptick in international travelers skipping the US and going elsewhere in Europe. The downward trend in travel to the US is being called the Trump slump. NYC for instance is now projecting 300,000 fewer international tourists in 2017 than the previous year instead of the 400,000 gain over the previous year predicted a few months ago. Travel searches for flights and lodging in the US are down 20 to 50% worldwide outside the US. Those vacationers have to go somewhere besides here. It may as well be EU countries.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#54
post #18

Yeah... Not going to happen. Americans spend billions on European vacations, and nobody is going to threaten that when push comes to shove (any additional hassle is going to send people to Cancun instead). This is just posturing.

That is absolutely true, however the majority of European sway is with Germany, and the lost tourism would hit other countries (Greece, Spain, Croatia) much harder.

There will be a hit in tourism, but I doubt that it will happen on those three countries. When Americans go to Europe they tend to focus on France/Italy; Spain is more popular for Europeans. Think about tourists in Miami (searching for sun) compared to tourists in New York (searching for "history").

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#55
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? It is largely a reaction to globalization and the refugee crisis.

What made you doubt my seriousness? Of course I am serious. I am not aware of how bad refugee crisis. Sure, people are complaining but we are not talking about millions of refugees that change the social fabric altogether. Globalization has been going on for decades now and things do seem to have improved for many. Why now?

> millions of refugees that change the social fabric altogether

Note that there were slightly over 1 million applications for asylum in Europe in 2015 [1]. I can't find numbers for totals in 2016, but [2] has some raw statistics & charts. Note that these numbers don't account for migrants that don't apply for asylum (which could be a very small or a very large percentage, but is likely non-zero).

I can't speak for the "changing the social fabric" bit though.

[1]: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911

[2]: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

[cache of 2]: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ki9SPSv...

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#56

The reason being that the US still requires visas from 5 EU countries: Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania. And "The EU says it notified the United States in April 2014 that it was not meeting EU visa rules, and had given the country two years to comply."

what most likely would happen as most of these agreements is full reciprocity. i.e., like Europeans have to pay $14 for the ESTA visa waiver to travel in the US, Americans would have to do the same and register online.

That visa waiver would hopefully work for the entire E.U.

Or, like Australia, Brunei, Japan, and Canada which were similarly notified and implemented the changes, the US will do the same.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-f...

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? It is largely a reaction to globalization and the refugee crisis.

> It is largely a reaction to globalization and the refugee crisis. If that is indeed the real reason, it means we as a species have hilariously overblown reactions to perceived threats.

Is this news to anyone?

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#58
> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this.

I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now.

European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans who are not socially or memetically equipped to handle such an influx of radically different and heavily indoctrinated people. European news media emphatically denies that anything bad is happening; "No, rape rates have only gone up a little bit! No, we're not putting a wall around the Eiffel Tower, it's an aesthetic perimeter! No, Sweden isn't banning christmas lights in public for Muslims; it's because we all of a sudden realize that street lights can't structurally support christmas lights!" Most people in Europe are not dumb enough to fall for this.

For decades, the sentiment in the European political system has been "us last". Here's a great quote from the President of the EU Parliament until earlier this year, Martin Schulz: (and yes, it's a real quote): "For me, the new Germany exists only in order to ensure the existence of the State of Israel and the Jewish people."

The conclusion that any impartial observer would make is that European politicians don't seem to give much of a shit about Europeans, and instead see them as more of a resource to be used up for the sake of various political causes (mass immigration is a big one, and as Mr. Schulz demonstrated, Zionism is another).

It should come as exactly zero surprise that, at some point, Europeans are going to get fed up with being treated like shit by their own political system.

I'm not even European, but this sentiment is very obvious to me from my European expat friends. A large number of them are in support of leaving the EU in favor of increased national sovereignty (because then at least their own interests might come into play), and those that want to stay in the EU mostly feel that way because they falsely conflate free movement and free trade with the existence of the EU.

The result of this discontent with (forced) social globalism is that countries are becoming more isolationist. This led to Brexit, will possibly lead to France leaving the EU as well (although the EU parliament is currently trying to attack Le Pen), and who knows what next.

To be clear, I'm not happy about any of this, but I honestly don't know how people didn't see it coming.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#59
post #40

Yeah... Not going to happen. Americans spend billions on European vacations, and nobody is going to threaten that when push comes to shove (any additional hassle is going to send people to Cancun instead). This is just posturing.

For me to go on vacation to the US, as a European citizen (outside of the 6 countries that are the reason for this action), I just need to get an ESTA for $15 or so. I guess the EU visa will cost something similar. It's not going to change anything.

the EU is already introducing a similar system to the ESTA regardless: http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/brussels-prepares-eu-wide-sc... (doesn't apply to Ireland or the UK)

they're proposing requiring full visas for US citizens if the US doesn't comply, the sort where you have to book an appointment with the consulate for an interview and pay several hundred dollars.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#60
post #8

the EP is doing tit-for-tat when there is no tit-for-tat!

"The main reason for the vote is the way that travellers from some EU countries are treated by America. While most citizens of EU countries can travel to the United States without a visa, those from Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania must still obtain one. Because the EU demands equal treatment of all its citizens in such matters, it says it is legally obliged to fight back." I won't say it's a good idea -…

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