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Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#51

Post by brianwawok »

sixQuarks wrote: post #48
MegaButts wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Elon has accomplished a lot, but I think you're ignoring the fact that every one of his companies is still surprisingly risky. Tesla might not get another loan and it could go under in a year. SpaceX has fantastic margins, but they still have significant hurdles with failed launches (although this is true of rocketry in general) and navigating a political landscape. Solar City was going under when Elon saved…

you're avoiding the question. Name someone else that has done more impressive things than what Elon has already accomplished.

Ben Franklin Thomas Edison Ghandi

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#52

Post by stagbeetle »

pseudometa wrote: post #9
hodder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla investors are learning a hard lesson that just because a company is cool and makes amazing products, that does not make it a buy at any price. There is almost no way to justify the current valuation and Goldman is simply reiterating that. I have a really nice coffee mug in front of me right now. Best mug I've ever used. Is it worth 1200 dollars? No. Price matters.

But if I got 400000 preorders for that $1200 mug?

Doesn't guarantee sustainability.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#53

Post by MegaButts »

sixQuarks wrote: post #48
MegaButts wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Elon has accomplished a lot, but I think you're ignoring the fact that every one of his companies is still surprisingly risky. Tesla might not get another loan and it could go under in a year. SpaceX has fantastic margins, but they still have significant hurdles with failed launches (although this is true of rocketry in general) and navigating a political landscape. Solar City was going under when Elon saved…

you're avoiding the question. Name someone else that has done more impressive things than what Elon has already accomplished.

Norman Borlaug, Marie Curie, Max Planck, Henry Ford, Mahatma Gandhi, Bill Joy, Margaret Hamilton. I could go on.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#54

Post by johan_larson »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Tesla went public on 29 June 2010 [1]. Since then, it has traded 1,677 days. It's average (median) movement, from open to close, is -0.01% (-0.09%). There have been 50 days when Tesla stock fell at least 5% and 53 days where Tesla stock rose at least 5%. So about 6% of the time, historically, it's "tanked" or "boomed" by a similar amount. (By coïncidence, the average >=5% movement is +7.452% while the average Note: t…

I wonder why Bloomberg didn't try to put this drop into perspective, somehow. Surely there are traditional measures of volatility, and they could have presented those. Why didn't they?

The simple answer is that bold statements grab more eyeballs, I suppose. But is that all there is to it?

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#55

Post by HeavenBanned »

idiot_stick wrote: post #43
jacquesm wrote: post #10

This is just Goldman trying to get better terms for their loan.

> This is just Goldman trying to get better terms for their loan. In the vaunted halls of Silicon Valley, maybe. But people in the finance world are starting to wonder if this thing can hold up. Others have been wondering for a while.

batteries + car will always be >>> gas + car which will always be >>> steam + car ...do you see where this is going? There is no other alternative. Gas guzzling days are numbered. The pioneer of batteries+car will be rewarded for scores if not a century or more.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#56

Post by djrogers »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #29
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will Elon's web of companies come crashing down when progress on the self-driving front starts to falter? Are you confusing Tesla with Uber? Uber needs self-driving cars to justify its valuation. Tesla doesn't. It just needs production volume. If anything, very near-term self-driving cars might be bad for Tesla because it would reduce aggregate demand for cars.

>Are you confusing Tesla with Uber? No, although I think Uber is in dire straits itself. A lot of laypeople buy Teslas not just because they are electric but because of a general feeling that they "are the future." The self-driving dream goes a long way towards driving this consumer sentiment. If self-driving peters out in the way I suspect it will, Musk/Tesla begin to lose some of their luster. If traditional car br…

> If self-driving peters out in the way I suspect it will

I think the current capabilities in 'self driving' are already driving a lot of attention and sales. Even if it 'peters out' in a few years with only refinements on the current abilities, people love the idea of a car that can park itself, come when summoned, handle the drudgery of stop-and-go commute traffic, and predict/prevent some accidents.

Those features alone are good enough to make a $35k car very desirable.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#57

Post by djrogers »

idiot_stick wrote: post #45
OliverJones wrote: post #27

Wall Street really doesn't like companies doing things with a promised payoff beyond the present fiscal year. That's what they're doing at TSLA. Sure, a lot of it ("Gigafactories!!!!!") is ego driven, not economy-of-scale driven. But they will need the manufacturing capacity as electric storage becomes more common. Don't forget, TSLA is an energy company. Their present products have wheels because rich dopes like me…

> Don't forget, TSLA is an energy company. Boy are people going to have to do some explaining if Tesla winds down Solar City, which I see as a major possibility. > But long term their products are going to be as ubiquitous as household electric meters and just as boring. I'd love to know how people are so confident that it's going to be Tesla that wins this. This isn't Tesla vs GM, Tesla vs Toyota, Tesla vs Ford; it'…

> if Tesla winds down Solar City

Why would they wind down a profitable financing arm of the company? Auto makers get a huge chunk of their revenue from financing, as do solar lease companies. Lots of synergy there, and just about zero downside to continuing Solar City operations.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#58

Post by sixQuarks »

defen wrote: post #50
sixQuarks wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please name some of these people who have been as or more successful - and don't go by wealth alone. I'm talking disrupting multiple, huge industries with innovative products.

Steve Jobs personal computer modern smartphone Jeff Bezos Online commerce Cloud computing Wayne Huizenga Waste management Video rentals Auto sales

C'mon, Elon has surpassed all of these guys. Steve Jobs comes the closest, but he was a brilliant designer, not an engineer like Elon. Wayne Huizenga is an interesting character, obvious business genius, but nothing like Elon. Jeff Bezos is brilliant at executing, but he has only really built one company, and is dabbling/nowhere close to what Elon accomplished with space ventures.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#59

Post by sixQuarks »

MegaButts wrote: post #53
sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're avoiding the question. Name someone else that has done more impressive things than what Elon has already accomplished.

Norman Borlaug, Marie Curie, Max Planck, Henry Ford, Mahatma Gandhi, Bill Joy, Margaret Hamilton. I could go on.

You are just reinforcing my point. You're listing people that are generations in the past, which is exactly what I said. you're grouping Elon into a once-a-generation / once-a-century type of person.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#60

Post by sixQuarks »

brianwawok wrote: post #51
sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're avoiding the question. Name someone else that has done more impressive things than what Elon has already accomplished.

Ben Franklin Thomas Edison Ghandi

are these not once-a-century type of person? Where are Elon's contemporaries? You're reinforcing my point.
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