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Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

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Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#51

Post by bobdole1234 »

kpil wrote: post #46
willvarfar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosec…

"Immigrants don't commit crimes"... Well, if you import a lot of very poor and unskilled people, the result will be more crime. Actually, I think it's more complicated that that. I can't find the data but I remember a report that stated that Somali and Iraqi immigrants had 5 time higher conviction rate, and that more than 25% had been convicted for a crime, compared to ~5% of swedes. I also remembered that immigrants…

So, don't let them be poor.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#52

Post by byrnedo »

danielvf wrote: post #35
byrnedo wrote: post #25

Murders / 100k people in Sweden: 4. Chicago has 27.

Comparing Sweden to Chicago seems a bit of a stretch. A number more directly comparable would be the US Non-Black homicide rate, which was 2.54 per 100,000 in 2015. I think that's lower than the Sweden figure in the sibling comment. [Edit: I had said that this rate was also lower than England. I was wrong on that one. ] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Well, considering the Malmo rate is 3.4, it's still quite a factor reduced from that. Malmo might be considered the most 'dangerous' city in Sweden (please correct me if anyone disagrees? I guess Stockholm is probably statistically a better choice due to the sheer size difference).

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#53

Post by bobdole1234 »

reitanqild wrote: post #36
willvarfar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosec…

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. Person living in Norway here: No, being an immigrant doesn't make you a criminal. However, statistically speaking certain crimes are very much overrepresented with certain cultures. I'm not saying Europeans are perfect: a lot of bad stuff existed when I was young. But there where certain t…

You think rape and murder are ever going to be normalized?

Really?

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#54

Post by reitanqild »

bobdole1234 wrote: post #51
kpil wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Immigrants don't commit crimes"... Well, if you import a lot of very poor and unskilled people, the result will be more crime. Actually, I think it's more complicated that that. I can't find the data but I remember a report that stated that Somali and Iraqi immigrants had 5 time higher conviction rate, and that more than 25% had been convicted for a crime, compared to ~5% of swedes. I also remembered that immigrants…

So, don't let them be poor.

?

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#55

Post by _delirium »

Pxtl wrote: post #17
willvarfar wrote: post #6

I don't get why the Right is so keen to vilify Sweden. I've lived abroad and travelled and feel I have a fair handle on all the countries I've visited and I'm living abroad now.. In Sweden! Nordic countries are by far the best functioning countries I've ever visited and should serve as positive examples.

Because Scandinavia has countries that are aggressively left-wing and really successful at it. These are the places that prove that liberal ideals work. And they've accepted a tremendous number of refugees. So ideologue right wingers are desperate to see them fail, as proof that Muslims are intrinsically hateful and that Scandinavians are chumps for falling for leftist ideals.

That's the perception in the U.S., but I don't think I would really describe today's Sweden as "aggressively left-wing". Maybe... staidly center-left, or something along those lines. The Sweden of 2017 is not the Sweden of Olof Palme; it's no longer entirely dominated by the Social Democrats, and the Social Democrats themselves have moved much more to the center. It is fairly socially liberal, though, and still has a reasonable social safety net, so it can look left-wing if your baseline politics are debates over whether abortion should be banned and whether hospitals should be publicly funded.

(And the rest of Scandinavia even less so. I mean Denmark's government is a conservative minority government that depends for its working majority on the support of an anti-immigrant nativist party, so it's hardly some kind of leftists running things there.)

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#56

Post by plandis »

kevinbowman wrote: post #2

I'm interested in how this is being reported on in the USA - is there a discussion about the complete fabrication of this story, or is the story itself successfully doing the rounds? It seems amazing that manipulation of the public on such a massive scale is even possible in somewhere like the USA, if that's what is happening.

It's Fox News so only right-wing people are even listening to this crap.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#57

Post by rodionos »

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #47
danielvf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Sweden to Chicago seems a bit of a stretch. A number more directly comparable would be the US Non-Black homicide rate, which was 2.54 per 100,000 in 2015. I think that's lower than the Sweden figure in the sibling comment. [Edit: I had said that this rate was also lower than England. I was wrong on that one. ] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

The actual rate for Sweden and the UK is 0.9, each. So even the 'non-black' rate in the US is higher than both, put together. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intenti...

I recommend double checking reference tables in Wikipedia.

It is conveniently displayed first in search results, however for Sweden:

https://www.bra.se/download/18.358de3051533ffea5ea7f2cf/1459...

  > 305 Completed murder, manslaughter and assault resulting in death.
  > 9,851,017 Total population
= 3.1 per 100000 people

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#58

Post by byrnedo »

paulddraper wrote: post #50
byrnedo wrote: post #25

Murders / 100k people in Sweden: 4. Chicago has 27.

Wow, way to cherry pick! The U.S. homicide rate is 4.5.

If you mean that by choosing one city in the US vrs the whole country's rate then you're right.

But my point was that Sweden is incomparable to the USA (Sweden has a population approaching 10 million). You'd find it very hard to find a city in the Nordics approaching that of some in the US.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#59

Post by mercer »

baobrain wrote: post #32
willvarfar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosec…

I just want to point out that socioeconomic status is generally not an established correlate of crime, despite many thinking it is, though it's possible that the disparity may cause people to commit crime. It's probably not very accurate to attribute crime to immigrants being poor. Disclaimer: I am not an expert in criminology and also not very familiar with sweden's situation

> just want to point out that socioeconomic status is generally not an established correlate of crime, despite many thinking it is, though it's possible that the disparity may cause people to commit crime

Could you provide some evidence of this rather bold claim? I really am interested because many of my opinions are based on this assumption.

Re: Fake Sweden expert on Fox News – no connection to Swedish security

#60

Post by cancancan »

willvarfar wrote: post #22
dep_b wrote: post #8

It's a bit weird that a country safer than the US now gets portrayed as a sodom and gomorra of rape and violence. The striking difference between Swedes and immigrants in terms of violent crimes (four times as much, five times for rape) is declared for a large part by the fact that Swedes on average are nice and peaceful people. Fox and Trump blowing everything out of proportion shouldn't stop a healthy debate about…

Immigrants don't commit crimes. Poor people commit crimes. It happens that the poorest people in Sweden right now are immigrants. The rape stats are also way different from how they are portrayed in the media. In Sweden, if you are in an abusive relationship, every instance of abuse is counted individually, and as Assange learned, the law is very strict. As other countries tend to do far worse at reporting and prosec…

Perhaps you should move to northern Stockholm suburbs like Rinkeby and Husby where violent riots have become somewhat of a norm. Just a few days ago there was a five hour riot that included torching cars, throwing rocks at the police, looting shops and businesses, beating up journalists. The reason for riot? Police arrested a suspect on a drug charge. Same thing happened last August in the same part of Stockholm. Violent riots and 47 torched cars. Same suburb where more than 100 cars where torched during riots in May 2013.

Was there a single riot like that in Sweden that did not involve immigrants? How about honor killings?

Those are completely new categories of violence for Sweden.

> I saw nazis demonstrating in the local town center yesterday, which shocked me.

That's what you get when you bury your head in the sand and choose to ignore the reality.

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