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Double life as a KGB agent

theguardian.com

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Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#51

Post by knieveltech »

ianderf wrote: post #31
knieveltech wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income inequality, labor arbitrage, job loss to industrial automation, exponential increases in the surveillance state, healthcare cost increases, this list could go on indefinitely. Scientists and engineers intentions are largely moot as long as their inventions and innovations are consistently used to further concentrate wealth and power in the hands of a vanishingly small minority of the world population.

You life in the Middle Ages definitely would have been way much better. /s

How adorable. Any thoughts on events that have occurred in the last 1500 years or so or is that your deal, you just wander in, drop an obtuse one-liner, and then wander off again?

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#52

Post by hibikir »

arkades wrote: post #40
kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

I lost my respect for the Guardian a while back. They were reporting on hostilities in Israel. They had a side-bar for "Related Articles", which were one after the other - critical of Israel as being an unprovoked aggressor. Fine, if that's the truth, except: Every article I opened had a long lead-in about Israeli aggression, its consequences, etc. Every article had buried in the last paragraph, practically mumbling…

I was born and raised in Spain, and now live in the US. In my experience, the coverage of news about Israel in the US and Spain are about as different as black and white. What you describe about The Guardian seems like normal coverage in Spain.

The experience mase me understand that, in practice, all sources have major amounts of spin where you might not expect it, and that it is very difficult to figure out which spin, if any, is closer to reality. It's not about fake news, but about how wide the journalist's sources are, and how much did they care about digging for what is real.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#53

Post by lern_too_spel »

77pt77 wrote: post #49
kev009 wrote: post #24

I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald. But wow, the brazen seed on current events "Might Trump have been recruited by Putin?" and "right wingers are easier to convert". First class journalism right there folks, way to be taken hook line and sinker by the intelligence community while doing an article on the intelligence community. Pretty comical.

> I had some level of respect for The Guardian vis a vis Glenn Greenwald Are you familiar with Sam Harris' objections to his character?

Or that he continues to claim that his PRISM reporting was correct, despite lacking any evidence to support his claims and having seen irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#54

Post by nradov »

im3w1l wrote: post #30
ethbro wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the inefficiencies of embedding agents like this seems to be that they're subject to the same vagaries of chance as all of us. What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access to an SCI file you're interested in? It seems a pretty poor bet compared to turning individuals already in relevant positions.

You can provide them with covert help. If they have a team of 10 people helping them out, they will seem like a 10x performer...

Any help the Soviets would have provided those agents would have also increased the risk of detection due to the unavoidable contacts with the helpers.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#55

Post by nradov »

johansch wrote: post #44
ethbro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically, this seems like a better bet for using the agents.

Right. For instance, if you are China.. odds are you have agents in Google and Facebook, right now.

Maybe not full-time spies but Chinese intelligence almost certainly targets such organizations with their “thousand grains of sand” approach.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/05/a-new-kind-of-s...

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#56

Post by rdtsc »

johansch wrote: post #44
ethbro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically, this seems like a better bet for using the agents.

Right. For instance, if you are China.. odds are you have agents in Google and Facebook, right now.

Working in defense and talking to candidates who applied from China (graduated from M.S. programs at some US universities), I sometimes wondered if some who applied would be agents working for Chinese Intelligence services...

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#57

Post by piplgobde »

pjc50 wrote: post #25

For people who like this sort of thing: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v10/n16/paul-foot/the-great-times-they... (on the British Royal family being infiltrated by fascists). The TV series Deutchland 83 is also well worth watching for a snappy spy drama about a young man from East Germany being coerced into being a double agent.

Lovely series, but first thing I thought of when reading the article was The Americans, it's about two spies in the Soviet illegals program living in a DC suburb.

Would definitely recommend it if you liked Deutschland 83.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#58

Post by mercurial »

myf01d wrote: post #10
warent wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment comes across as small minded and pessimistic without real evidence. Scientists and engineers typically help the world, with or without money. See Gates, Stallman, Page & Brin, Clair Cameron Patterson, etc

> Scientists and engineers typically help the world, with or without money Of course they do, the actual change has always been done by engineers and scientists, however, history only remembers the rulers and recently entrepreneurs

> Of course they do, the actual change has always been done by engineers and scientists

That is demonstrably false. Caesar brought lasting change around him, just like Napoleon did. Alexander the Great, though his empire crumbled after his death, brought Hellenic culture to many areas in the world. And I would like to know how the work of "scientists and engineers" triggered the Arab spring.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#59

Post by dang »

myf01d wrote: post #6

Just like engineers, they think they are smart and they are changing the world and blablabla but it is actually all about billions and power going to the big guys

Please don't post unsubstantive comments.

Re: Double life as a KGB agent

#60

Post by sangnoir »

ianderf wrote: post #31
knieveltech wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income inequality, labor arbitrage, job loss to industrial automation, exponential increases in the surveillance state, healthcare cost increases, this list could go on indefinitely. Scientists and engineers intentions are largely moot as long as their inventions and innovations are consistently used to further concentrate wealth and power in the hands of a vanishingly small minority of the world population.

You life in the Middle Ages definitely would have been way much better. /s

Don't get too nostalgic about the middle ages: the landed gentry who will own the AI/fully automated factories will occasionally require mechanical-turk-type work done by the serfs. Which side will you be on when your job gets automated?
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