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Mathematical genius is fragile

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Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#51

Post by dagw »

0xFFC wrote: post #33
deepnotderp wrote: post #27

I'd just like to note that math in early years is taught as rote memorization problems and doing things over and over again like memorization. Contrast this with higher level math which is highly creative...

This is my exact problem. For my whole life i was afraid of math, after i (i had to took it, it was not my choice) took real Analysis class and watched Francis Su Real Analysis videos, I realized i like math more than CS (and cs was my only love in my entire life.). Right now i am starting abstract Algebra and i have plan to took probability and number theory after that. I am literally in love with math. It does feel…

I did almost exactly the same thing. I was one of those kids that was always 'good' at math, but somewhere during high school they managed to effectively kill any interest I'd ever had in math. I went into university with the intention of studying computer science and a plan to try to take as few math classes as I could get away with. However after my first 'real' math course at university I instantly realised that I actually loved math (always had) and switched from CS to math at the end of the semester.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#52

Post by jankotek »

hiddencost wrote: post #44
jankotek wrote: post #43

> Mathematical genius is fragile; society needs to stop destroying it ... but there are too many men in this field. Just love this marxist logic.

s/too many men/not enough women/ Suddenly it makes perfect sense. Why on earth do you choose to frame it the first way? Getting more women into math by having male mathematicians be less shitty people doesn't decrease the total number of mathematicians.

Do you know any 'shitty mathematician' in person, or is it just another stereotype?

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#53

Post by martindelemotte »

hyperpape wrote: post #47
martindelemotte wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more like "Basketball is about being in very good physical shape", which makes more sense. IQ (or more precisely the g factor) correlates not only with math but also with language skills and music[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)

I very clearly said component and "close to", so I don't think what I said merits a correction.

Then why would the g factor also apply to animals as stated on the Wikipedia page? You don't see that many doing mathematics.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#54

Post by distances »

Jillboy wrote: post #48
malanj wrote: post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

Why is that? Why do you claim not everyone has the potential to become a math genius? Do you have any evidence to back that up (besides Ratatouille)?

Surely you don't mean to suggest that we all start with equal chances of attaining any and all skills?

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#55

Post by lutusp »

malanj wrote: post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

> The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet."

An unfortunate hyperbolic opening line, the remainder of the article is much better.

> However, saying anyone could be a genius is disingenuous.

But genius isn't an identity, it's a possession. It's often a currency with limited utility. Consider Bill Shockley, Nobel Prizewinner, co-inventor of the transistor -- he possessed a narrow, specific area of genius, held by someone otherwise quite ordinary and even deplorable (he was a racist who lectured on the imagined inferiority of black people).

Consider Henry Ford, inventor of efficient factory methods, but a rabid anti-Semite.

Identifying genius as a possession, not an identity, greatly clarifies its role in our lives. It can keep us from expecting a person to be smart about more than one or two specific things.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#56

Post by zizzles »

malanj wrote: post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

I got just a little further than you, until I reached "women make the best mathematicians" where I instantly ALT-F4'd Google Chrome and added 'medium.com' to a permanent blacklist. Truth of the matter is, math IS a high-IQ game, albeit average intelligence specimen can become semi-competent with time and practice (the payoffs of this pursuit are negligible)

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#57

Post by RangerScience »

Jillboy wrote: post #48
malanj wrote: post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

Why is that? Why do you claim not everyone has the potential to become a math genius? Do you have any evidence to back that up (besides Ratatouille)?

I only have anecdotal plus a bit of thinking...? Talent is pursued interest; genius is pursued passion. Most people won't have passion for mathematics, even if such passions were heartily encouraged - at the very least, because there are so many other things to also be passionate about.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#58

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

jankotek wrote: post #52
hiddencost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/too many men/not enough women/ Suddenly it makes perfect sense. Why on earth do you choose to frame it the first way? Getting more women into math by having male mathematicians be less shitty people doesn't decrease the total number of mathematicians.

Do you know any 'shitty mathematician' in person, or is it just another stereotype?

> Do you know any 'shitty mathematician' in person

I certainly do.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#59

Post by ricree »

zizzles wrote: post #56
malanj wrote: post #2

The author lost me at "Mathematical genius resides within every one of us — most people just don’t know it yet." The movie Ratatouille captured the sentiment much better, "a great chef can be anyone". Which is not the same as "anyone can be a great chef". It seems the author is mixing up those two. I fully agree that gender, background, schooling, etc is not the key determination of genius. However, saying anyone cou…

I got just a little further than you, until I reached "women make the best mathematicians" where I instantly ALT-F4'd Google Chrome and added 'medium.com' to a permanent blacklist. Truth of the matter is, math IS a high-IQ game, albeit average intelligence specimen can become semi-competent with time and practice (the payoffs of this pursuit are negligible)

>where I instantly ALT-F4'd Google Chrome and added 'medium.com' to a permanent blacklist

Medium.com is essentially just a blog host, isn't it? Seems a bit harsh for one story you didn't like.

Re: Mathematical genius is fragile

#60

Post by davesque »

tnzn wrote: post #24

Fallacious first paragraph. Not everyone has the potential to become a genius en math, or any other discipline for that matter.

I think it's a bit pointless to get hung up on that wording. It seem to me that his point is more that people are often so bad at spotting genius that we may as well assume everyone is a genius.
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