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Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

lists.swift.org

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Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#51

Post by nnethercote »

kibwen wrote: post #43
brson wrote: post #5

Graydon has been on Swift for a while, and there are a few other prominent Rust contributors there as well. I hope they are enjoying themselves and make good things.

Indeed, Huon Wilson and Alexis Beingessner are both at Apple now, and happily they remain active in the Rust community as well (though under no uncertain circumstances are they allowed to submit code). I can understand why this is on HN, but as you say this is old news to most of us in Rust. For those not in the know, Graydon left Mozilla for a startup in 2013, and IIRC began at Apple in... 2015?

> under no uncertain circumstances are they allowed to submit code

Really? Why is that?

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#52

Post by barrkel »

gcp wrote: post #15
barrkel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XUL-based add-ons are being deprecated, and Firefox is adopting the same extension mechanism as Chrome (but with more extension points). That means that add-ons that make more or less drastic changes to the UI will need to be updated, rewritten or abandoned. This is being done before replacements of equivalent capability have been added to the new API. And there doesn't seem to be signs of awareness of the risks of d…

This is being done before replacements of equivalent capability have been added to the new API XUL support isn't removed yet, and the bugs and requests for feedback are open and out there. It's also possible to implement new WebExtension APIs (WebExtension Experiments) and inject them as an add-on, in order to test replacement APIs. Most of the major addon authors have engaged there, and many already have a WebExtens…

Arguments that add-ons are competitive advantage for Firefox have had no base in reality for the last few years.

Maybe. We'll see. All I know is that if I could get a menu bar and tree style tabs in Chrome, I'd have switched 5 years ago.

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#53

Post by GolDDranks »

nnethercote wrote: post #51
kibwen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Huon Wilson and Alexis Beingessner are both at Apple now, and happily they remain active in the Rust community as well (though under no uncertain circumstances are they allowed to submit code). I can understand why this is on HN, but as you say this is old news to most of us in Rust. For those not in the know, Graydon left Mozilla for a startup in 2013, and IIRC began at Apple in... 2015?

> under no uncertain circumstances are they allowed to submit code Really? Why is that?

I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine their job contract with Apple forbids them to do that.

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#54

Post by slavapestov »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #29
monocularvision wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better Mac support would be nice too. Using Swift in a larger code base in Xcode often results in long compile times, auto completion and code syntax highlighting failures and other terribleness.

Agreed! I think part of the problem is that they rely too much on SourceKit, which is a rather indirect and slow way to provide basic features like syntax highlighting and auto completion. These should be built into Xcode itself. As it is now, SourceKit has to do substantial work in a short amount of time which results in frequent crashes. The compeller's error messages could use some improvement too, I don't conside…

> I don't consider 'BAD_EXEC' to be a descriptive error at all.

Those are bugs, please report them: https://bugs.swift.org

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#55

Post by fruitco »

nnethercote wrote: post #51
kibwen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Huon Wilson and Alexis Beingessner are both at Apple now, and happily they remain active in the Rust community as well (though under no uncertain circumstances are they allowed to submit code). I can understand why this is on HN, but as you say this is old news to most of us in Rust. For those not in the know, Graydon left Mozilla for a startup in 2013, and IIRC began at Apple in... 2015?

> under no uncertain circumstances are they allowed to submit code Really? Why is that?

I have heard rumors that someone (I have no idea who) has been fired from Apple for contributing to Rust without permission a while back.

Some employers do not like employees doing things on the side without permission.

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#56

Post by gcp »

barrkel wrote: post #52
gcp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being done before replacements of equivalent capability have been added to the new API XUL support isn't removed yet, and the bugs and requests for feedback are open and out there. It's also possible to implement new WebExtension APIs (WebExtension Experiments) and inject them as an add-on, in order to test replacement APIs. Most of the major addon authors have engaged there, and many already have a WebExtens…

Arguments that add-ons are competitive advantage for Firefox have had no base in reality for the last few years. Maybe. We'll see. All I know is that if I could get a menu bar and tree style tabs in Chrome, I'd have switched 5 years ago.

All I know is that if I could get a menu bar and tree style tabs in Chrome, I'd have switched 5 years ago.

Right, so the only reason why you use Firefox is that you're being held hostage by add-ons. Isn't that terrible? We'd rather make a browser you actually WANT to use and if that requires pouring gasoline over the add-on ecosystem and setting the thing on fire, I'll be first in line to bring the matches.

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#57

Post by umurgdk »

slavapestov wrote: post #54
AsyncAwait wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I think part of the problem is that they rely too much on SourceKit, which is a rather indirect and slow way to provide basic features like syntax highlighting and auto completion. These should be built into Xcode itself. As it is now, SourceKit has to do substantial work in a short amount of time which results in frequent crashes. The compeller's error messages could use some improvement too, I don't conside…

> I don't consider 'BAD_EXEC' to be a descriptive error at all. Those are bugs, please report them: https://bugs.swift.org

Are you the Slava who wrote Factor programming language? Apple hiring all the good language designers around the world dammit!

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#59

Post by webmaven »

steveklabnik wrote: post #9
alrs wrote: post #4

My frustration with Mozilla deprecating everything I need in Firefox has made it impossible for me to trust them as stewards of a language. Hopefully this contributes to a decoupling of Rust from Mozilla. (EDIT: Am I incorrect that they are deprecating the things I need in Firefox, am I incorrect that I don't trust them, or am I wrong to have hope for a good outcome?)

Rust is a community project that Mozilla contributes heavily to, rather than the other way around. The sets of people working on those decisions for Firefox and the people guiding Rust's development are disjoint, and all major changes to Rust must go through our consensus-based, community-driven process, so even if Mozilla _were_ to try to declare that Rust should do something against the wishes of the community, the…

Is there a page or blog post somewhere that describes Rust's origin story?

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#60

Post by webmaven »

alrs wrote: post #4

My frustration with Mozilla deprecating everything I need in Firefox has made it impossible for me to trust them as stewards of a language. Hopefully this contributes to a decoupling of Rust from Mozilla. (EDIT: Am I incorrect that they are deprecating the things I need in Firefox, am I incorrect that I don't trust them, or am I wrong to have hope for a good outcome?)

You are incorrect that Mozilla is a steward of Rust.

You are incorrect that Rust is coupled to Mozilla.

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