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I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

blog.codinghorror.com

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Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#51

Post by barking »

aedron wrote: post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

Trump is not doing anything he didn't say he'd do.

I don't suppose there was ever a possibility of Jeff or all the people currently protesting, voting for Trump in the first place.

So, aren't we just seeing the same people who were anti-Trump before the election, protesting now?

The election of Trump came as a shock even during the count because the Trump voters tended to be quieter and/or ignored.

But they won the election and now what they voted for is being enacted.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#52

Post by lifty »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #44
thecopy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can. Trump activated a policy invented and signed into law by Obama, he did not choose the countries himself.

Sorry, you fell for an "alternative fact".

Do you know where this "alternative fact" was published first and how it came into existence? And does it have any root in reality or is it totally manufactured? Would like to understand the phenomenon better.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#53

Post by AnthonyMouse »

rtpg wrote: post #35
aedron wrote: post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

"Both parties are the same" is such a tired meme considering what has happened the past 8 days. Do you think President Clinton would be defunding planned parenthood? Planning a repeal of a healthcare law without a replacement, making 20 million people lose their health insurance immediately? Appoint a brain surgeon to HUD? Do you think Democrats would set up this muslim ban? Not a 6-month refugee ban, but a ban from…

It isn't that both parties are the same on all issues, it's that there are important issues that no viable candidate would actually address.

Do you think President Clinton would end NSA mass surveillance? Reduce copyright terms? Meaningfully reform Wall St? Meaningfully reform the tax code or social spending?

Republicans won't either. That's the problem.

You get enough people frustrated enough and they vote for whoever they think will shake things up, even at the risk of burning it all down.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#54

Post by rimantas »

aedron wrote: post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

One of the sad and amusing at the same time things is watching people not satisfied how things are bravely go and make them worse.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#55

Post by hueving »

sergiosgc wrote: post #33
MisterWebz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people seemed to be awfully calm when Obama was droning weddings. I'm not saying we should've put so much hate towards Obama as well, I'm saying we should put things into perspective.

Social response is rarely linear. Think of it as gaining critical mass. Think of it as the droplet that overflows the glass of water. What happened before was wrong. What is happening now is worse, and it got more of the public's attention.

No, the sad part is that this is getting so much more attention because it's visible here and it's the result of a new party in charge.

Obama's administration was quietly murdering people without trials in a country we aren't at war with from drones. I fail to see how a temporary immigration ban is "worse" other than the "out of sight, out of mind" effect that applies to those exterminated by drones.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#57

Post by rimantas »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #48
aswerty wrote: post #14

This is the second political post I've seen sky rocket on HN this morning. I assume a mod intervened on the last one since it disappeared rather quickly. Do we really want to start political discussions in HN? Politics creates enough friction between people in real life let alone discussions with strangers over the internet.

ye, this place is for talking about tech or problems and solutions to problems. This is just soapboxing.

a.k.a. keeping one's head in the sand.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#58

Post by ctack »

SBCRec wrote: post #15
levlaz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. Who is saying that this is acceptable? > 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries I think the key issue here is that this ban includes valid Green Card holders and people who have Visas. This means that they have already spent up to two years being vetted. This policy makes no sense. If…

I believe he is referring to the global hate train (media hype?) being run on Trump, magnitudes higher than any directed at the previous administrations responsible for those actions. edit: Are military actions against these countries targeting Muslim communities worse than removing immigration privileges of Muslim communities? I dunno how to approach this question...

Well put. I wonder if this ban would have been as strongly challenged by the media if it was someone else proposing it.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#59

Post by vidarh »

SBCRec wrote: post #15
levlaz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. Who is saying that this is acceptable? > 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries I think the key issue here is that this ban includes valid Green Card holders and people who have Visas. This means that they have already spent up to two years being vetted. This policy makes no sense. If…

I believe he is referring to the global hate train (media hype?) being run on Trump, magnitudes higher than any directed at the previous administrations responsible for those actions. edit: Are military actions against these countries targeting Muslim communities worse than removing immigration privileges of Muslim communities? I dunno how to approach this question...

Obama got somewhat of a free pass for simply not being quite as bad as Bush. With Trump we're seeing indications of things getting substantially worse than Bush. That is why.

People outside the US are used to the US being far to our right, and it being relatively futile to do more than complain about these things. But Trump is seriously scaring people.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#60

Post by hueving »

geff82 wrote: post #18
levlaz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bombing predominately Muslim countries, overthrowing governments and covert black sites where Muslims get tortured. Who is saying that this is acceptable? > 90-day ban on immigrants coming from war-torn countries I think the key issue here is that this ban includes valid Green Card holders and people who have Visas. This means that they have already spent up to two years being vetted. This policy makes no sense. If…

Stopping issuing visas in itself would be bad for US reputation. I know many Iranians who really work hard to get a visa for the USA to visit the country they long for at least once in their life. As there is no US embassy in Iran (for good reasons, by the way), they usually have to travel to Turkey at least twice. One couple I know came to Germany for two weeks just to get their visa from the American consulate here…

>As there is no US embassy in Iran (for good reasons, by the way),

Yeah, the Iranian government tends to get a little "clingy" with US citizens that have good leverage power for bargaining.

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