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Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

nytimes.com

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Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#51

Post by myowncrapulence »

131012 wrote: post #37
divbit wrote: post #2

TLDR (or at least what I took from it): Too much adversity produces stress that is bad for the body in that it ages your immune system much faster than it should. Sounds plausible.

It is slightly more than adversity, as anyone can lose someone important or their job, suffer from brain trauma, etc. Upward mobility implies understanding and navigating through different sets of social rules and this can be extremely stressful and implies what sociologists call anomie. The sociological explanation of this phenomenon is almost a hundred years old. You can read it here: Merton, Robert K. (October 193…

The wiki for Anomie is fascinating.

".. characterized by a rapid change of the standards or values of societies (often erroneously referred to as normlessness), and an associated feeling of alienation and purposelessness. He believed that anomie is common when the surrounding society has undergone significant changes in its economic fortunes, whether for better or for worse and, more generally, when there is a significant discrepancy between the ideological theories and values commonly professed and what was actually achievable in everyday life."

This can certainly be said to describe how many are feeling with the current election outcome. Thanks for bringing this up.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#52

Post by majkinetor »

This thing is something people observed for a long time and its totally contextual - In "How to make stress your friend" TED talk, Kelly McGonigal showed that people who believe that stress is damaging will actually get it that way and vice versa.

I wonder how much of it actually boils down to chronically high cortisol levels. People that perceive stress as harmfull are more prone to its damage and we know that positive thoughts and meditation can negate that effect to some degree or even produce benefits.

Knowing that effect exists is one thing, but how do we protect ourselves ?

In chronic making of cortisol adrenal gland becomes deficient in Vitamin C which is used in the process [1]. This has direct effect on immunity (all animals produce more vitmin C in stresfull times to protect from it). Chronic insufficiency will not lead to scurvy (you only need tiny amount of C to prevent that) but will produce ill health particularly combined with smoking and bad eating habits which is typical for lower socioeconomic class (talking about it, blacks, the most affected, are regularly deficient in vitamin D too, another potent immunity booster).

The effect is multifactorial from that point - for example Vitamin C insufficiency changes cholesterol transformation to bile acids which leads to high cholesterol levels [2] which can provide some explanation for cardiovascular events.

Insufficiency is the level that will not result in terminal disease but in suboptimal health and shorter lifespan (i.e. RDA sux) because body will start to utilize triage [3].

Hence, I suggest everybody to forget about 60mg bullshit and use couple of grams of Vitamin C as few daily doses to protect from John Henryism effect. Afterall, that is what our closest relatives who have the same disfunctinal GULO gene - primates - do: they eat grams of C in the wild.

[1] http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/1/145.long

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4685043

[3] http://www.bruceames.org/Triage.pdf

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#53

Post by yarou »

leereeves wrote: post #49
yarou wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that people, regardless of race, can end up ranking pretty high on the ladder of Western society. However, it's pretty disingenuous to suggest that everyone starts out in the same position on that ladder.

When did I suggest that?

It's sort of implied in your comment that black Americans have the same access to the superficial perks the person you were responding to suggested.

Here's a simple thought experiment for you. If you took the starting rating, x, for a set of Americans, I think you'd find that whites have a higher initial starting rank than someone who's black or Hispanic. It's harder to climb the ladder when you start out on a lower position.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#54

Post by mcguire »

treyfitty wrote: post #3
divbit wrote: post #2

TLDR (or at least what I took from it): Too much adversity produces stress that is bad for the body in that it ages your immune system much faster than it should. Sounds plausible.

Important qualifier: (I only read up to the middle) the results were largely associated with African American subjects.

If I understood the article correctly, the effect was originally associated with African Americans, but has recently been extended to others in similar "striving" conditions.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#55

Post by oculusthrift »

leereeves wrote: post #29
Applejinx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you start with a massive inheritance, to some extent that will diminish the stress. Bathing in gold-plated bathtubs also cuts stress, and grabbing felines because you can. One could argue that a black American would have great difficulty taking advantage of these stress reliefs.

Can we put aside the partisan attacks and have a rational discussion here on Hacker News? In that spirit, I think you're wrong about inherited wealth, gold, and women who "let you do it" being unavailable to black Americans. A small number of people of both races have access to these things.

"rational" = not hurting trump supporters feelings

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#56

Post by chillacy »

majkinetor wrote: post #52

This thing is something people observed for a long time and its totally contextual - In "How to make stress your friend" TED talk, Kelly McGonigal showed that people who believe that stress is damaging will actually get it that way and vice versa. I wonder how much of it actually boils down to chronically high cortisol levels. People that perceive stress as harmfull are more prone to its damage and we know that posit…

> ‘They started asking people, “how much stress have you experienced in the last year?”’ The doctors also probed whether participants believed that stress was bad for their health – and then looked at the records to see who died. ‘People who experienced a lot of stress in the previous year had a 43 per cent increased risk of dying. But,’ McGonigal continues, ‘that was ONLY true for the people who also believed stress was also harmful for your health. People who experienced a lot of stress but did not view stress as harmful were no more likely to die – in fact, they had the lowest risk of dying of anyone in the study, including people who had very little stress.’

I'm not sure the causation goes in that direction. Couldn't it also be that those who take damage from stress feel that stress is bad for them, and those who aren't affected by stress negatively feel that it's good for them? To throw a silly example... Vampires believe that sun is harmful, humans believe a bit of sun is good for them. But believing won't make a difference for the vampire.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#57

Post by travmatt »

segmondy wrote: post #18
afterburner wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they kept saying the negative effects didn't happen to whites, so I'm not sure what the takeaway here is. Life is harder for black people?

Success is harder for black folks. If they don't leave the poorer areas they grew up in, did they really succeed? There's an increase risk of being a victim if you are richer than most in a poorer area. if they leave, they are socially isolated from their comfort zone and friends, labeled a sell out, have to conform to social norms of the new environment. In both cases friends and relatives constantly beg for money.…

This has largely been my experience.

You'd probably also be interested in "The short and Tragic Life of Robert Peace", a young man who went from inner city poverty, to a degree in molecular biophysics and biochemistry from Yale university, to being killed in a drug robbery.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#58

Post by SnappyT »

majkinetor wrote: post #52

This thing is something people observed for a long time and its totally contextual - In "How to make stress your friend" TED talk, Kelly McGonigal showed that people who believe that stress is damaging will actually get it that way and vice versa. I wonder how much of it actually boils down to chronically high cortisol levels. People that perceive stress as harmfull are more prone to its damage and we know that posit…

While you didn't suggest where you source your Vitamin C, it may be helpful to point out that the "grams of C in the wild" that are generally eaten by primates are probably from natural sources. You may find this article interesting to read, as there are questions as to have safe and effective certain vitamins and supplements are: Why" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161208-why-vitamin-supplem... vitamin pills don't work, and may be bad for you.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#59

Post by slitaz »

chillacy wrote: post #56
majkinetor wrote: post #52

This thing is something people observed for a long time and its totally contextual - In "How to make stress your friend" TED talk, Kelly McGonigal showed that people who believe that stress is damaging will actually get it that way and vice versa. I wonder how much of it actually boils down to chronically high cortisol levels. People that perceive stress as harmfull are more prone to its damage and we know that posit…

> ‘They started asking people, “how much stress have you experienced in the last year?”’ The doctors also probed whether participants believed that stress was bad for their health – and then looked at the records to see who died. ‘People who experienced a lot of stress in the previous year had a 43 per cent increased risk of dying. But,’ McGonigal continues, ‘that was ONLY true for the people who also believed stress…

I think it is so straightforward. Chronic stress is bad for the health in general due to the effects of cortisol to the body.

Some people may deal with stress (as Sapolsky describes), so the effects of cortisol are not pronounced.

Those that cannot deal with the stressors, are those most affected and they are those that will admit they are stressed.

It is an issue of people tending to admit something, in a qualitative study.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#60

Post by sunstone »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #33
renlo wrote: post #32

Isn't it just that people who are 'more diligent and [tend] to strive for success' tax their bodies more by working harder? Whereas 'lazier' people tend to give their bodies more time to recuperate? Adversity isn't the cause; it's working to overcome adversity. Similarly, being rich doesn't make one healther; being rich gives one more access to healthcare and the means to take time off of work. I think the distinctio…

True, but this is the telling bit > The focus on black adolescents is significant. In much of this research, white Americans appeared somehow to be immune to the negative health effects that accompany relentless striving. As Dr. Brody put it when telling me about the Pittsburgh study, “We found this for black persons from disadvantaged backgrounds, but not white persons.”

Following on the comment of majkinetor above it's not impossible that black youth are also much more deficient in Vitamin D on average. It could be a confounding factor.
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