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Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

paulgraham.com

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#51
post #10

Looking back, the thing I wish someone in middle/high school pointed out to me is how temporary it is. Day in and day out it's your entire life and you think it goes on like that forever, and then one day you graduate and poof it all disappears. I remember the day after I graduated it sunk in that I'd never be in that world again and this huge feeling of relief and excitement washed over me...and then I remember feel…

Two things happened for me that changed how I experienced high school.

1. I stopped being afraid of losing a fight. I learned that if you got into a fight and and got in a few good hits, even if you lost, people would be less likely to give you crap in the future.

I might go home with a busted lip but you're going to pick up a bloody nose for your trouble.

2. I got bigger. I grew to be 6'1" by my senior year. Bullies go for easier targets and someone who was their size or bigger wasn't usually an easy target.

I don't advocate violence as a first resort to solve anyone's problems but it's important to be able to defend yourself.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#52
I was a HUGE nerd at highschool and I disagree with this article completely. I think nerds are unpopular at highschool because their intelligence is incomplete.

You see, Abstract thinking is only one of intelligence's dimensions. It will make you good at things like Math or Science. But there are other aspects. The one which is relevant to the article could be called social skills, or empathy. Successfully navigating human interactions takes a non-trivial amount of mental processing.

Some kids become popular "by default" (the rich guy. The prettiest girl). Others are naturals at social skills, just like some are naturals at Math. For the rest of us, the only option is getting better at it via practice.

In my case, I actually remember using the scientific method to improve my social skills. I formulated hypotheses, and tested them on my (extremely limited) social circle. Small talk was really difficult at first, until I discovered that teenagers love talking about themselves (I felt like I had discovered the fifth platonic solid with that one.). So I just asked them things about themselves and assumed the easier role of a listener instead of a "real speaker".

Gosh, I was such a nerd.

These days, I find that social skills complements my abstract-thinking intelligence in my job. I think empathy makes me a better programmer. I can totally spot code which was written by the socially challenged.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#53
This article is a memoir dressed up as sociology. I don't doubt that it's a true statement of the way Paul Graham felt about his high school, but a great deal of it seems like arrant nonsense when applied more broadly.

The other thing that rubs me the wrong way about this article is the rather sanctimonious tone about nerd behavior, as if every nerd's "smartness" is a beautiful quality ("I want to make computers and rockets!") rather than, well, a pretty normal desire for a certain type of achievement wrapped up in a desire to impress in a different social hierarchy. I went to a school with a lot of nerdy types and there was a hierarchy among the nerds too, with people spending a lot of time putting on displays about how much smarter or funnier or hipper they were than the other nerds and reaping Nerd Popularity. I think the sanctimonious attitude is actively mischievous; I met many nerds in university who seemed to feel that they could do no wrong as they were clearly One Of The Oppressed Class and went on to do ugly things to weaker, lower status people whenever they could.

Part of the reasons that nerds are 'unpopular' is that they often can't resist trying to ensure that everyone around them knows just how much smarter the nerd is, regardless of whether they are. We started hitting this phenomenon in the mid-90s, where the ability to program a computer or some minor knowledge of science led to nerds proclaiming themselves experts on Every Damn Thing (art, politics, philosophy, urban planning, ...).

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#54
I always pinned this on being introverted and nothing to do with smarts. I could be popular with effort and actually being outgoing but it was exhausting and I would quickly find myself getting annoyed at popular people. What they did and talked about just wasn't stimulating.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#55
post #13

It took me too long to realise that a lot of the popular kids where also smart. They just had social skills as well. It's much easier to tell yourself that other people don't like you because you are smarter than them than it is to work on yourself.

This. The article (which admittedly stopped reading about 40% in) falls in the trap of condescension because it assumes anyone who isn't a nerd is also not smart.

> (FTA) Why don't smart kids make themselves popular? If they're so smart, why don't they figure out how popularity works and beat the system, just as they do for standardized tests?

They do. The real problem is that intelligence is hard to see or appreciate when looking upwards. That's why it's not valued, and that's why the author doesn't recognize the people that are intelligent on other planes than he is.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#56
Being unpopular in school often means being bullied or ostracized, so we should be especially wary of victim blaming, which I sadly see in many comments here.

I was bullied for a while in school, though it wasn't in the US, and by the end of school I was quite well-liked. The advice I'd give to my younger self would be a) to get serious about some explosive sport like boxing or sprinting, b) to get fast and on point with words. I could've easily spared a few of my endless videogame hours for that, I just didn't know it would help at the time.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#57
One of the things that is pretty apparent but is not discussed much is maturation. "Nerds" are typically slow to hit puberty, get at the bottom of the pecking order since essentially it's like kids competing with the grown ups and then by the time they graduate it's too late to "make up" for it.

Reunions are actually quite entertaining to observe from that perspective - you'd see things like a tall and athletic "nerd" standing next to a short skinny-fat "jock" and wonder "what happened?"

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#58

If you've ever spent 5 minutes talking to a programming (most likely a nerd), you don't need an article to tell you why they're unpopular. From my experience, most nerds are completely condescending and complete assholes. Maybe it's time us nerds to look at ourselves and take a little blame instead of shifting it off to everyone else.

true but some of that is a reaction to how they were treated when they were younger. My cousin once remarked to me, that when I was younger I used my sense of humor as a way to reject people before they could reject me. Sounds like a self defeating behavior that arose randomly. Then I lost 130 pounds and discovered some people are treated better on the average and far less often rejected.

I suspect a lot of unpopular kids internalized the lessons of their unpopularity, became bitter, and began to engage in behaviors which made them more so and rationalized it for them. On some level it changed to a choice they had made.

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#59
I also came to see the latter years of grade school as a kind of petty game. At the time it fed into a bit of subconscious nihilism but I was always optimistic about the future and getting on with my life.

If I could tell myself anything though it wouldn't be what PG recommends here. It'd be,

"Good for you; you figured it out. It's a petty game that has no real consequences. You have more time and ability to shape yourself into whoever you want to be than you're ever going to have again. Make the most of it. Live it up."

Re: Why Nerds Are Unpopular (2003)

#60
post #10

Looking back, the thing I wish someone in middle/high school pointed out to me is how temporary it is. Day in and day out it's your entire life and you think it goes on like that forever, and then one day you graduate and poof it all disappears. I remember the day after I graduated it sunk in that I'd never be in that world again and this huge feeling of relief and excitement washed over me...and then I remember feel…

+1 to this.

Those first few days after mandatory education was over were a really weird and surreal moment for me @ 18 years old.

Schooling is this period of your life where the routine of going to school, homework, school holidays etc are pretty much the only thing you know, but then suddenly it slams into the buffers and it becomes irrevocably over.

In the UK system you usually spend 7 years with the same cohort of kids up to 18. It felt to me like a lot of social "baggage" gradually accrued over time - you built up this persona/reputation/expectation that defined what sort of person you were, how you acted, what sort of friends you kept, what you liked to do etc. It seemed to me that you unconsciously lived-up to this view that others had about you - people thought you were a smart kid/popular kid/sporty kid/nerdy kid, and so you acted like one.

Once school was over though those expectations from the others about who you were and how you acted just evaporated and you were free. Kids would be well-served to be reminded about this! Everything changes after school.

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