Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Staying with the US Digital Service

mattcutts.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 251 posts

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#51

Post by [deleted] »

Matt_Cutts wrote: post #28
Keverw wrote: post #13

I wonder how the USDS is different than the 18F? Seems like they both are doing the same thing, why not just merge them?

USDS and 18F serve in pretty different roles. USDS often comes in when there's a crisis or a high presidential priority, because the organization sits in the office of the President. 18F is located in the General Services Administration and is especially strong when looking at the medium- to long-term goals of an organization. I'd also say that 18F thinks more about culture change than many parts of the USDS. They al…

[deleted]

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#52

Post by prostoalex »

1888franklin wrote: post #10

Howdy Matt - will you build a Muslim registry if Trump orders it or Congress passes it?

Aren't we past the stage of building a custom database product for each specific use case?

Why can't a hypothetical Muslim registry enthusiast use AirTable, FieldBook, at least a dozen of similar database-in-a-box offerings, or just a managed instance of some open source database management system?

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#53

Post by wslack »

Keverw wrote: post #31
Matt_Cutts wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USDS and 18F serve in pretty different roles. USDS often comes in when there's a crisis or a high presidential priority, because the organization sits in the office of the President. 18F is located in the General Services Administration and is especially strong when looking at the medium- to long-term goals of an organization. I'd also say that 18F thinks more about culture change than many parts of the USDS. They al…

Thanks for the explanation. I was just curious since I know I have seen posts about 18F here on HN before which sounded like very similar work. This is the first time I heard of USDS and as an outsider to government tech, they both looked the same to me. But that makes totally sense to me now, sounds like with the different funding and offices they work on slightly different projects and problems then but still tech.…

* I work at 18F

I think the press articles that sometimes lump it all together can be frustrating at times and I like Matt's descriptions above. Another important difference: when USDS attends a meeting it's the "White House" in the room, whereas 18F sitting in GSA (which does other things like support government real estate) gives us a different context.

We both, though, benefit immensely from strong civil servants that partner with us. There's a narrative out there that "silicon valley" people have come to DC to "rescue" all of the government, when many people in both orgs have government experience (or come from the non-profit sector). Our work is impossible without partners throughout government who know a policy space and are ready to benefit from different tools and processes, and I wish those folks (or even just the tools and processes such as http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-681) got more attention than the "hero narrative."

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#54

Post by [deleted] »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #50

https://www.usds.gov/join#who says they are only accepting US citizens. However https://www.usds.gov/join#application only asks if you are authorized to work in the US, and says 'For some positions US citizenship is required'. So are there any positions that do not require US citizenship, or should that application form just ask if you are a citizen?

[deleted]

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#55

Post by trentmb »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
spoon16 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the USDS project selection criteria is that we prioritize work that based on what will do the greatest good for the greatest number of people in the greatest need. I do not believe a Muslim Registry does any good for anyone. Being involved in building one would require formally changing our values which would be visible to everyone in USDS. Disclaimer: personal opinion, I am currently serving on a USDS team, m…

> One of the USDS project selection criteria is that we prioritize work that based on what will do the greatest good for the greatest number of people in the greatest need The USDS is a taxpayer-funded public entity. The "greatest good..." is determined by the law, written by our duly elected representatives. You don't get to serve the public and selectively reject the law. If the Congress passes a law you disagree w…

> you must follow it or resign--those are the only options, per your civil service oath.

What's the difference between bureaucratic incompetence and sabotage?

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#56

Post by quanticle »

easychewie wrote: post #19
Matt_Cutts wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I'll add the disclaimer that this is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself. I think the mission of the US Digital Service is fundamentally non-partisan: we want to make government work better for the American people. When a veteran can apply for health benefits online, they have a better experience. But it also saves the money from them driving to see someone in person. There's so m…

> First I'll add the disclaimer that this is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself. And there it is. One of many reasons I'll never work for the government again. The government is so PC-sensitive that dude can't even post on HN without a mildly disguised form of legalese. When I was in the Air Force, everything I said had to be prefaced with The views expressed in this article are those…

Except that's also policy for most large corporations, as well. If you're working at some place like Microsoft or Google, it's required policy that you preface anything you say about Microsoft or Google with a statement that these statements are your personal opinions only and do not reflect the policy of the company.

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#57

Post by prostoalex »

1888franklin wrote: post #25
hnbro wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if not this person, someone else will. so it just boils down to asking what his personal political views are.

You state this as simple fact, but is it so? Delivering enterprise software is very hard. Matt suggests that USDS was necessary to rescue healthcare.gov, for example. The labor pool of skilled coders is smaller vs. demand than for many other professions. If the top 500 coders declined to participate in a project that savagely violates human rights - and encouraged this as a norm in our communities - isn't it plausibl…

> If the top 500 coders declined to participate in a project that savagely violates human rights - and encouraged this as a norm in our communities - isn't it plausible that doing so could either prevent, derail, or meaningfully weaken such a project?

Not sure what the top 500 vote totals were on this, but when Snowden's documents revealed existence of a massive domestic surveillance program that included large amounts of data collection, parsing and analysis, most people were surprised at the breadth, depth and sheer amount of data.

Worth noting that it was developed without any significant leaks either, which spells doubt on the idea that top 500 were even invited to express their stance on the subject, which nevertheless did not force the project into derailment. For all we know, some might have participated, through a government or a third-party contract that did not specify exact goals of the project and provided limited view into the overarching theme.

One thing that's hard to judge from the outside is the quality and efficiency of that code. It could be very bad indeed.

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#58

Post by forrestthewoods »

1888franklin wrote: post #27
mwfunk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that most of the people who downvoted it, did so because they were opposed to the idea of a Muslim registry (as am I). If you're opposed to it, and hope that he is also opposed to it, then the last thing you want to do is to force him to go on record at this stage in his career as being opposed to it. That may do nothing, or it may hurt him, but it's not going to help him or the opposition to the regist…

As the asker, I will say I'm opposed to the registry, and I disagree a bit with your notion on strategy. I see what you're saying. But I think it's important to establish a norm in our communities now (perhaps like http://neveragain.tech/ ), rather than being silent and hoping that we will have "sleepers" in the right positions that can stop it later on.

Given that no "Muslim Registry" has ever been proposed or supported by anyone it is not the most pressing question.

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#59

Post by general_ai »

eragoins wrote: post #33
general_ai wrote: post #30

Great to see there are actual adults ready to take a pay cut and serve the country in spite of maybe not getting the president they like. Far too many people have fallen victim to feigned outrage and pearl clutching, and excluded themselves from the conversation completely. That's not how you effect change, folks. _This_ is how you do it. You go out there and put in the hard work.

Just wondering if you would say the same of people protesting in Hong Kong, Russia, or Saudi Arabia. Should they also "act like adults" and "go out there and put in the hard work?" Depending on a person's life experiences, it causes them to draw the line at different places. So I don't think it's fair to say those people display "feigned outrage and pearl clutching," while _this_ specific way is the adult way.

Speaking of Russia (which is the only one of those countries/localities that I can speak for, since I grew up there), I will say that Putin is inarguably the best thing that happened to Russia in the past 100 years.

Re: Staying with the US Digital Service

#60

Post by eikenberry »

spoon16 wrote: post #38
eikenberry wrote: post #32

Why do they not have a remote work option?

I live outside of Seattle. But nearly all of the work I do with USDS requires me to be physically present. So I travel a lot (4/5 days a week). You aren't going to find a badly broken technology project in the Federal Government that is able to leverage remote people effectively.

I'm a developer and devops guy. If I have to be physically present for anything, something is very wrong.
Post reply on HN