Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mac’s share falls to five-year low

computerworld.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 140 posts

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#51

Post by gshulegaard »

jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

> the Mac ecosystem is now ingrained into open source development.

Interesting...

> Anyone who suggests doing this either hasn't done it before or has way too much time on their hands.

Oh...

Quick question, when was the last time you did it?

Currently I have three full time Linux boxes:

* Custom PC build I did myself

* System76 Galago UltraPro

* Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition

Oddly enough, the one that gave me the most issues was the Dell supported XPS 13 DE but I didn't have to do a thing, just waited for driver updates from Dell which I could install via:

> sudo apt-get update

> sudo apt-get upgrade

But at the end of it I have a Linux laptop with premium build quality, 8 hour battery life (with 4K screen), and an external battery pack that easily extends my battery to a full day of work before needing an outlet.

My company gave me a Mac, but literally every other computer I personally own, right down to the Dell T710 server I have is running Linux (Ubuntu 14.04.3 specifically) without issue.

I don't expect Linux to take over the Desktop market. But for Developers I see the current MBP as just another reason to seriously consider just getting a Linux laptop from an OEM like Dell or a niche player like System76.

Let's face it, this MBP just highlights the fact that its target market is not developers or power users. Which is fine, and it probably can be a successful product with or without us...

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#52

Post by DoodleBuggy »

SnowingXIV wrote: post #50
jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

Great point. I recently bought the new MBP with Touchbar and was hesitant for the myriad reasons that were previously mentioned. Before I pulled the trigger I went to setup my dev environment on a fresh Linux partition at home (mainly a windows machine). I was fighting things all over the place to get it to a state of usefulness and productivity. I spent too much time doing this and still kept running into little iss…

How do you like not having a real escape key?

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#53

Post by pfranz »

jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

I generally agree. But I'm not confident they'll change. They may have withdrawn support too quick, but what do they gain out of doubling down their efforts (especially if the market is just developers)?

I've really been surprised hearing pretty popular projects that have been around for 20+ years still have issues on Windows (like Python). Working in VFX there are a lot of domain-specific open source projects that "support" Windows, but have out of date build instructions and break often just because most of the development is done in Linux.

I really think Linux on the desktop's biggest problem is having third-parties caring about it (which is a chicken/egg issue) and people's familiarity. If you need Photoshop or your trackpad driver won't work--you're out of luck. Any of the troubleshooting or debugging I've experienced hasn't been any more difficult in Windows vs Linux other than my familiarity with how the OS works. I find troubleshooting Windows much more difficult because my familiarity has atrophied since I haven't used it heavily in years.

I do think there's hope for Windows with the Linux Bash shell, docker, and virtual environments. It has always been a bit sloppy to use your current OS as your development environment.

Personally, I just want good hardware with support and I'll probably move to Linux. Battery life, a good track pad, high DPI screen (and support for it), and build quality are the major things I haven't found yet and would really convince me.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#54

Post by fritzw »

jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

> I fully expect this release to be their Windows 8 moment

I get what you are saying and somewhat agree that naysayers are an overly represented demographically.... but...

Apple has for 5 years been operating without strong direction. By many accounts it appears to be flailing, simply living off it's cache and tech R+D created from the 3 decades of Job's rule.

It's clear Apple still makes the best hardware so that isn't in question. I do question, how they intend to stop the slow drain of talent from the company and users. They aren't supporting pros the way they did in the 80s 90s and 2000s. All the pros in movies, music, and graphic design used to use Macs. With the introduction of OS X programmers had a home. That was a strong component for influencing their coolness factor. No more. Apple alienated all of them with expensive outdated options like trashcan Mac Pro, and overly expensive unjustified new MBP. Logic isn't keeping up, FCP isn't keeping up, hardware specs aren't keeping up. iCloud is limited and isn't keeping up.

This isn't a Windows 8 moment, this a late Windows XP moment. There is a slow drain that has started. We are approaching Windows Vista when everyone really gets turned off by how broken and discombobulated every product and service gets with the current lack of strong leadership.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#55

Post by stcredzero »

fritzw wrote: post #54
jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

> I fully expect this release to be their Windows 8 moment I get what you are saying and somewhat agree that naysayers are an overly represented demographically.... but... Apple has for 5 years been operating without strong direction. By many accounts it appears to be flailing, simply living off it's cache and tech R+D created from the 3 decades of Job's rule. It's clear Apple still makes the best hardware so that is…

I do question, how they intend to stop the slow drain of talent from the company and users. They aren't supporting pros the way they did in the 80s 90s and 2000s...That was a strong component for influencing their coolness factor.

It used to be that creators doing cool things on macs was a chief driver of the Mac image. Now it seems more like it's wannabes and douchebags latching onto this former cool image, taking over as the chief drivers of image.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#56

Post by tyingq »

eridius wrote: post #14

PSA: This "news" comes courtesy of a company called Net Applications, which I've never heard of before. Looks like they're a web analytics firm. So take this with a huge grain of salt, because they can't actually see real user share, all they can see is the share of people who browse to their clients' sites.

The client list is fairly impressive: http://www.netapplications.com/about/?scrollTo=clients

Not convinced, though, that the data used here is the real data from these client's main web properties.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#57

Post by fritzw »

gshulegaard wrote: post #51
jameslk wrote: post #36

I keeping hearing the narrative from this crowd that the MBP is on its way out of being in vogue for developers, but I don't buy it at all. First of all, this is market share up to the release of the new MBP. It's not surprising that their market share has been slipping given that up to this point they haven't released a significant update to the MBP since 2013. But getting to the point, the Mac ecosystem is now ingr…

> the Mac ecosystem is now ingrained into open source development. Interesting... > Anyone who suggests doing this either hasn't done it before or has way too much time on their hands. Oh... Quick question, when was the last time you did it? Currently I have three full time Linux boxes: * Custom PC build I did myself * System76 Galago UltraPro * Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition Oddly enough, the one that gave me the mos…

The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. Particularly for work machines, I don't have time to compile and install just to get my box up and running. Mac worked for me for this reason, I presume the reasons are the same for many. You like the freedom and power your boxes allot you, I like the simple operation of the mac. My problem is Macs are quickly becoming more work with all of there services and issues. When I start having to search for drivers online I might consider switching to Linux, but this won't be a cure all, because I deal too much in graphics.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#58

Post by davidf18 »

IBM for one is converting their laptops to mostly Macs, claiming to calls to support is way down compared with users of PCs (e.g., look at total cost of ownership -- TCO). IBM has software which helps to deploy Macs in the Enterprise.

The integration of Macs/ Mac OS with the iPhone / iPad eco-system is helpful as well. I use iMessage a lot on my Mac.

For those that need it, tech support is readily available in Apple stores.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#59

Post by LeifCarrotson »

xja wrote: post #7
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mac Pro is in such bad state that it appears it's worth just building a Hackintosh desktop to avoid buying such old hardware. I'm still running a Mid 2010 Mac Pro because the new trash can model wasn't compelling and it's since sat without upgrades since introduction.

This is true, but I'd guess that having a nice Mac Pro isn't going to gain them market share. The market they're losing is probably the low end (where cost difference is higher).

Sure, the volume is definitely in the low end. But the cost difference has always been there, and they used to have higher market share.

They're losing 2 things:

1. Exclusivity of really good hardware and software. They're still among the best in hardware, but a nice 'ultrabook' (like a Surface Book, XPS 13, or X1 Carbon) running Windows 10 is comparable to a Mac in ways that an Inspiron 6400 running Windows XP or Vista just wasn't comparable to a 2007 Macbook Pro running OS X 10.5.

2. The dedication of the high end. The developers on this site are a tiny market, for certain. But we're the people our families and friends go to for computer questions (for better or for worse). The artists and especially the musicians and videographers which the Mac Pro used to attract are more trendsetters. If enough high schoolers watch their favorite Youtubers editing on their Mac Pros, and ask their uncle to look up from reading HN on his Macbook Pro to recommend a laptop, that effect can have a powerful impact on the low end.

Re: Mac’s share falls to five-year low

#60

Post by itchyouch »

vijucat wrote: post #22

Also see the relative growth of /r/buildapc vs. /r/apple: http://redditmetrics.com/r/buildapc#compare=apple (click on Total Subscribers). March 2013 was the crossover point. I'm trying to compare Apple on it's own turf here (tapping into the enthusiasm of retail / consumer folks). That's a lot of mindshare lost, IMHO, by defining themselves as the "Bose of computer hardware". Important mindshare at that: young people…

Been in both camps. I finally built my own PC after a decade or so of using Macs to be able to play games.
Post reply on HN