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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#51

Post by shas3 »

diogenescynic wrote: post #38
shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair.

Also, this would handicap companies in low-cost-of-living regions of the US. This includes a massive chunk of the economy in solid economies with low costs of living like Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#52

Post by davidw »

shas3 wrote: post #51
diogenescynic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

Auctions are also predicated on some random, arbitrary number that has little relationship with reality. And, I'll add, is currently absolutely dwarfed by the number of people coming in on other visas; mostly family ones, IIRC.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#53

Post by suryacom »

usernametbd wrote: post #46
suryacom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa can be transferred. But, Green Card process has to be restarted from the square one; that is +10k for attorney.

> Green Card process has to be restarted from the square one That's not fully true AFAIK. The green card (GC) is a 3-step process - PERM, I-140 and GC itself. If you already have your I-140, unless your previous employer cancels your I-140 (which cost them a few thousand dollars), your new employer can just start over the third step of the process. This is not optimal, sure, but it is not square one either.

That is not correct. The second employer has to do all three: PERM, I-140 and GC.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#54

Post by ashwinaj »

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

> they cannot change job

Correction: You can change jobs, but the green card process needs to start again but you keep your priority date. EDIT: You can change jobs to another "similar" position i.e. the job responsibilities should be similar. You can't move from an individual contributer to a manager position for example. In this case, the green card application will have to be done again.

> That gives the employers full control of the employee

Only if you let them. You are free to leave to another job, but many are risk averse. The employers expolit this; personally I am a risk taker so I don't see this as a hindrance.

> So, hundreds of thousands highs killed immigrants

Calling each and everyone highly skilled is questionable. A lot of H1B employees (and local employees for that matter) do not do highly skilled work, relatively speaking. I know this is controversial statement, but please be honest and avoid hyperbole.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#55

Post by davidw »

Nrsolis wrote: post #36
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

This is something that I've long suspected was going on with the H1B system. In essence, we have a limited "guest worker" program that allocates most of the economic benefits to the company (in terms of a compliant workforce that has little incentive or ability to take their skills to a competing company that might offer a better salary or career options) while allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers A…

> allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers

If it were not a good option for them, they wouldn't sign up for it, so it has more benefits than costs for them.

In terms of competition.... IT is a very globalized industry already.

> permanent legal residency to workers who have critical skills that make them attractive to industry. Once they are here, permanent residency along with all of the benefits that entails (freedom to travel, freedom to change jobs)

Yes!

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#56

Post by neosaurus »

tn13 wrote: post #34
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

> Any time I change my job, green card process has to be restarted from square one..more cash to attorneys. That is not true. Visa can be transferred in mere 15 days. Why dont you change jobs?

While the visa can be transferred over in a short span, I believe OP is talking about the GC process, which does have to be restarted. It can be ported over depending on the application status and if the new position matches in role to the original application.

From personal experience I can say that this takes up to two years or longer to get back to status quo in the GC process after switching jobs and reapplying. This is a major disincentive for switching even if there's better pay and position on offer. It also makes talented H1B workers stay away from startups as the GC application process is safer when sponsored by established companies.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#57

Post by hibikir »

79d697i6fdif wrote: post #41
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

The root of the problem with H1B is that despite a bunch of laws meant to make sure that these workers are paid and treated the same as US citizens, that isn't happening at a lot of companies. This is creating a huge demand for visa workers as a kind of indentured servitude. This isn't a good situation for US citizens or visa workers. If the laws are fixed by, for instance, making it far easier to switch jobs on a vi…

It's not that hard to switch jobs once you have an H1B: The hard part is to do so while trying to get a green card.

Ultimately, the tremendous wait times for everyone in the 00s, and now the tremendous lines only for a few countries, come down to the maximum number of green card numbers being vastly inferior to the number of people that qualify for said visas and are already living and working in the US.

Even in cases where your employer isn't trying to actively exploit you, the difficulty at changing jobs during the green card process depresses wages. I come from Europe, but I came in as an EB3 in 2000, so I had to wait a good 7 years. I was the highest paid engineer in our small department, and the only foreigner, but I was worth a lot more in the open market than what my employer paid. My salary tripled in the next three years afterwards, as I was paid an entry level salary while being qualified for being a principal engineer at a far bigger shop.

But everyone talks about the H1B program, instead of just opening permanent residency to people that are, in practice, already permanent residents, just with less rights.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#58

Post by findjashua »

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

"Any time I change my job, green card process has to be restarted from square one"

The most time-consuming part of the process is waiting for your priority date to be current. Once you have your priority date, restarting the process through another company shouldn't really make a difference, since you can just reuse the existing priority date instead of getting a new one.

Theoretically, you can lose your priority date if the previous company cancels your I140. But since it costs thousands of dollars to do that, most companies don't bother.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#59

Post by BhavdeepSethi »

throw345hn wrote: post #42

One of the problems with the highest bidder approach its going to favor senior devs. This is good thing but you also have to look at graduates who have come to the US to study and may not be able to earn that much immediately but are just as likely to earn a lot more in a few years. If the ruling forces them to move them, then it will result in draining the talent.

Students from universities already have an OPT valid for 36 months (12+24), which is sufficient time to move to the highest bidder approach.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#60

Post by adrr »

euphoria83 wrote: post #8

Raising the minimum wage is a welcome move to counter abuse of this visa. However, the minimum level needs to be set based on the city of employment and it's living cost. It cannot be a flat rate.

Counter argument to that is that its better for government and country to have higher paid employees as it increases tax revenues. Tax rates don't change based on living costs.

My proposal would be stack rank all h1b candidates based on salary and take the top X. This would push up the salaries for H1bs and stop the abuse. It would indirectly lead to increase of all engineering salries both my removing negative pressure of having low salaried employees but also H1Bs salaries are public record.

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