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The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

washingtonpost.com

51–60 of 106 posts

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#51
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you realize it - but your comment is the problem, not the original poster. Sometimes facts don't fit a political narrative. Comments like yours are what have polarized the nation. Your knee-jerk reaction to anything that disagrees with your position is to name-call and shame. Not very good form.

I kind of disagree in this case. As a general rule I think ideas should be debated objectively and with facts, but when someone so clearly promotes the idea that there are human races that are genetically distinct and map onto traits like intelligence and success I just think of the legacy that this line of thinking has given us: death, torture, and poverty throughout human history on a scale that's impossible to com…

And you can find any number of analyses that all conclude, "yup, the link is completely spurious".

The subject isn't debatable in polite company because it has been refuted so comprehensively that the only reason to still stick to it is an unwavering dedication to white nationalist ideology.

On this topic, there is no good faith.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#52
post #7

This article has a glaring logic flaw. After COLA, Asians and Whites show roughly the same median household income. But among minorities, Asians still have higher median household incomes than their Black and Hispanic counterparts. The author barely makes an attempt explain why this is the case. Doesn't the data just reinforce the perception that Asians are the model minority? So what the article should have said, is…

People don't have negative stereotypes towards Asians like they do for blacks and hispanics. People assume they are intelligent. When an Asian man walks down the street, white peoples don't cross to the other side like when they encounter a black man. If you see an Asian in a BMW people assume they are a doctor or engineer, if you see a black person in a BMW, people assume they are a drug dealer, the car is stolen, or they play professional sports.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really the data shows that discrimination is more anti-black than it is pro-white Or it shows that there is something about the statistically average black person that makes them less successful than the statistically average asian person. I don't claim to know what the difference is, but this is a fairly obvious inference to make. I'd actually say this is, a priori, a lot more likely than "everyone coincidentally…

> I'd actually say this is, a priori, a lot more likely than "everyone coincidentally discriminates against these particular racial groups but not any of these other ones". How would you change that prior if you were informed one of those groups had been enslaved on the basis of race for a couple of centuries, ruthlessly oppressed for another century, then blamed for most of the problems in the country for the lion's…

> How would you change that prior if you were informed one of those groups had been enslaved on the basis of race for a couple of centuries, ruthlessly oppressed for another century, then blamed for most of the problems in the country for the lion's share of the next one, becoming the primary subject of every leadership discussion?

If you update that prior with what history actually shows, this is less the case than you'd imagine. From the paper underlying this post's article:

> Foreign-born Asians were barred from naturalization by the Naturalization Act of 1790. This Act excluded Asians from citizenship and voting except by birth, and created the important new legal category of “aliens ineligible for citizenship”…Asians experienced mob violence including lynchings and over 200 “roundups” from 1849-1906 (Pfaelzer, 2008), and hostility from anti-Asian clubs much like the Ku Klux Klan (e.g., the Asiatic Exclusion League, Chinese Exclusion League, Workingmen’s Party of CA), to an extent that does not appear to have any counterpart for blacks in CA history. Both Asians and blacks in CA could not testify against a white witness in court from 1853-73 (People v. Hall, 1853, see McClain, 1984), limiting Asians’ legal defense against white aggression. The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the “Gentlemen’s Agreement” in 1907 barred further immigration of all “laborers” from China and Japan.

> …Asians have also faced intense economic discrimination. Many cities and states levied discriminatory taxes and fees on Asians (1852 Foreign Miner’s Tax, 1852 Commutation Tax, 1860 Fishing License, 1862 Police Tax, 1870 “queue” ordinance, 1870 sidewalk ordinance, and many others). Many professional schools and associations in CA excluded Asians (e.g., State Bar of CA), as did most labor unions (e.g., Knights of Labor, American Federation of Labor), and many employers declined to hire Asians well into the 20th century (e.g., Mears, 1928, p. 194-204). From 1913-23, virtually all western states passed increasingly strict Alien Land Acts that prohibited foreign-born Asians from owning land or leasing land for extended periods. Asians also faced laws against marriage to whites (1905 amendment to Section 60 of the CA Civil Code) and U.S. citizens (Expatriation Act 1907, Cable Act 1922). From 1942-46, the US forcibly relocated over 100,000 mainland Japanese Americans (unlike other Axis nationalities, e.g. German or Italian Americans) to military detention camps, in practice destroying a large share of Japanese American wealth. In contrast, blacks in CA were eligible for citizenship and suffrage, were officially (though often not de facto) included in CA professional associations and labor unions that excluded Asians, were not covered by the Alien Land Acts, and were not confined or expropriated during WWII.

That isn't to say that Asian-Americans had it "worse" wrt discrimination (though as the quote above shows, they did in some significant ways); the histories of the two groups in the US is far from apples to apples. But the assumption that discrimination was historically categorically different is not really that well-supported.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#55
post #9

This is such incredibly poor agenda-driven "journalism", with cherry-picked data used to (poorly) attack a sort of straw man argument: Asian Americans seem to offer proof that minorities can prosper — and even leapfrog whites — if they work hard and jump through the right hoops. For that reason, Asian Americans have often been invoked as a way to excuse the income gaps between whites and blacks or whites and Hispanic…

The entire argument (both parent and the article) is misguided at best -- a large fraction of Asians coming to the US are here for higher education (College, Masters, or Ph.D.). Therefore, many Asian immigrants are the cream of the crop, which skews the income distribution of Asian Americans significantly upwards. The comparison is simply not meaningful.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#56
post #49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you blame culture, but ignore historical practices like redlining, or the obvious correlation with poverty, or the fact that American black people have had scarcely 50 years of equality under the law? That drugs in black communities are treated as crime, but drugs in white communities are seen as a public health crisis? There are hundreds of issues of infinitely more substance than whether black children are c…

I mean... jeez, again with the name-calling. Have you looked up the definition of "bigot"? It's defined as a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions. In the comments I've seen you post so far, the intolerant one is... you.

Ha! The bygot complaining that everybody else is a bygot because he is being criticized for his bigoted views. The irony...

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#57
I'm always amazed at how obsessed certain people are with "race" (aka ethnicity) in this country. I'm very well aware of the tough racial history and I'm not saying that kind of ethnical stats shouldn't be made, but frankly, shouldn't we be talking about social classes instead?

This last presidential election was a great display of what I am talking about from both side. While one side was demonizing non-WASP, the other side banked its whole strategy on the fact that african-americans would surely vote for them (which is, when you think about it, basically saying that most people's vote cannot be predicted as they may flip/flop and are usually 50/50 +/- 5%, except for african-americans of course ...). And of course the next day, they were blamed responsible for the defeat.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#59
post #9

This is such incredibly poor agenda-driven "journalism", with cherry-picked data used to (poorly) attack a sort of straw man argument: Asian Americans seem to offer proof that minorities can prosper — and even leapfrog whites — if they work hard and jump through the right hoops. For that reason, Asian Americans have often been invoked as a way to excuse the income gaps between whites and blacks or whites and Hispanic…

It's the subtle racism of low expectations. They see communities self-destructing, but rather than expecting them to improve as responsible individuals, they expect them to fail like helpless invalids until the more capable communities save them.

Re: The Asian American ‘advantage’ that is actually an illusion

#60
Another huge flaw:

COL is not at all a sunk cost like this article has you believe; places with higher COL are generally better places to live. it's actually is a good indicator for the hard to quantify value in living one place over another. In other words, you can't just blindly factor it out and call it a day.

There is real value in living in San Francisco vs bumblefuck. It's the whole reason people want to live there in the first place despite it's higher COL!

In turn for your extra COL, you generally get access to nearby airports for travel, access to good jobs, a variety of career choices, a wide assortment of options for food and social nightlife, etc. These things have real value. You pay for this value.

you can't just blindly factor out COL.

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