How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner • Hacker News Board

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#51

Post by perseusprime11 » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 1:10 AM UTC

intralizee wrote: post #6

siculars wrote: post #3

Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…

I believe one of Apple's higher ups has talked about child labor before. I'm not sure if it was Steve or Tim but the convo was that its impossible to handle without hurting the communities because the norm is child labor over there. So the conditions for the children are worse if they have no labor. It's really complicated and not something that you can judge from an arm chair position, you have to go over there and…

Not trying to be Peter Theil here but why is child labor considered inhuman and cruel? Aren't they getting a chance to learn by doing as opposed to sitting in the classroom and getting to the same place in another 10 years?

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#52

Post by muninn_ » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

gertef wrote: post #50

maverick_iceman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's also incredibly Euro-centric to be thinking that other countries ought to be following the path Europe and the US took to capitalism Other countries like Soviet Union or Maoist China have tried other paths with not exactly stellar results.

You can't blindly assert that Maoist China was not Euro style and modern China is Euro style, and also claim that Maoist China has nothing to do with modern China's economy. There's a near-direct line from Maoist China to modern China -- the next generation of the same Communist Party is in charge.

You did notice that they liberalized the Chinese economy, right? That's why it's Modern China and not still Maoist China. Maoist China is unequivocally not European style, and is one of the worst tragedies in all human history. Modern China has created wealth, people who can attend university, start businesses, etc. even if it has some issues as we perceive them in the West.

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#53

Post by greglindahl » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 1:30 AM UTC

user837387 wrote: post #33

jayd16 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have made the same argument for child labor before the laws were enacted. Same for slavery. Argument ad antiquitatem is a fallacy.

Well, I believe that the best thing is to phase things out rather than go cold turkey. Otherwise you will get a backlash like the civil war that happened here in the USA.

Your command of US history is not so good -- the Emancipation Proclamation was made late in the war. The argument when the war started was about escaped saves; the Northern states were ignoring federal law and asserting state's rights to free them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850#Nul...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

Edit: and for the banned guy who called me racist, uh, you also have it backwards.

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#54

Post by skuhn » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 1:36 AM UTC

TheBeardKing wrote: post #25

>Apple manages to earn 90 percent of the profits in the smartphone industry worldwide, even though it accounts for only 12 percent of the sales That figure is astounding, that every other smartphone manufacturer shares only 10% of worldwide profit.

It's actually even worse than that (for everyone else). In Q3 2016 Apple had 104% of the profits -- because most of the other companies in that industry had no profits at all.

Samsung came in at #2 with 0.9% of profits (they usually do a little better, but the Note 7 thing happened).

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#55

Post by throwaway-hn123 » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 1:45 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #53

user837387 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I believe that the best thing is to phase things out rather than go cold turkey. Otherwise you will get a backlash like the civil war that happened here in the USA.

Your command of US history is not so good -- the Emancipation Proclamation was made late in the war. The argument when the war started was about escaped saves; the Northern states were ignoring federal law and asserting state's rights to free them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850#Nul... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation Edit: and for the banned guy who called me racist,…

It's a bit late to refight the civil war. You lost. Get over it, racist.

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#56

Post by user837387 » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 2:49 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #53

user837387 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I believe that the best thing is to phase things out rather than go cold turkey. Otherwise you will get a backlash like the civil war that happened here in the USA.

Your command of US history is not so good -- the Emancipation Proclamation was made late in the war. The argument when the war started was about escaped saves; the Northern states were ignoring federal law and asserting state's rights to free them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850#Nul... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation Edit: and for the banned guy who called me racist,…

Right. The proclamation was made after the civil war started. But the war was because the North started to act as if it no longer agreed with slavery, which the South saw as a threat, since it depended so much on it. Lincoln promised that slavery would not be allowed in new territories, the south states saw the writing on the wall, and that caused the war. Yeah, the United States didn't exactly quit cold turkey before the war but close enough I think.

>>[1] The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. [1]http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/faq/?referrer=http...

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#57

Post by inimino » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 3:07 AM UTC

siculars wrote: post #3

Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…

You would not be allowed to build such products because of US labor laws. Other sovereign countries have their own laws which they enforce within their borders and then we engage in trade. Why is it that the US should be enforcing its domestic regulations on other countries with entirely different circumstances which we know little about?

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#58

Post by mnopukyr » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 3:29 AM UTC

siculars wrote: post #3

Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…

   Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor

   in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations.

   Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not.

I don't see why not.

You read in the news a lot about how INS will raid a farm or meat processing factory to arrest illegal workers. Those conditions are often really unsafe and there are also teens working there too.

And yet those farms are still able to sell their produce.

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#59

Post by burkaman » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 4:34 AM UTC

perseusprime11 wrote: post #51

intralizee wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe one of Apple's higher ups has talked about child labor before. I'm not sure if it was Steve or Tim but the convo was that its impossible to handle without hurting the communities because the norm is child labor over there. So the conditions for the children are worse if they have no labor. It's really complicated and not something that you can judge from an arm chair position, you have to go over there and…

Not trying to be Peter Theil here but why is child labor considered inhuman and cruel? Aren't they getting a chance to learn by doing as opposed to sitting in the classroom and getting to the same place in another 10 years?

"getting a chance"? They're children, they don't have a choice. It's not like they're weighing the options and deciding that school just isn't right for them. Forced labor, child or not, is inhumane and cruel.

And then obviously, you don't learn anything on an assembly line. Please put some more thought into this stuff if you ever plan on having kids.

Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner

#60

Post by gumby » Fri, Dec 30, 2016, 4:44 AM UTC

> In China, the competition for companies is ... often focused on manufacturing partners, rather than multinationals themselves.

This article doesn't include the word "unemployment" which is the reason for this focus. Though the official unemployment rate is 4%, the real rate is believed to be at least 12, not counting the non-existent migrants who aren't legally permitted to travel due to the hokou system.

(I am always astonished when I hear that China is supposedly "beating" the US: by what possible metric could this be true?)