Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#51

Post by bo1024 » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:42 PM UTC

CopOnTheRun wrote: post #41

So maybe I missed it in the article, but it seems like they just tested a group of physically active students, and those who weren't. Does running have anything to do with the "functional connectivity" or is it just exercise in general? The article says we've known exercising is good for the brains of older people for some time now, the new study just tested the effects on younger people. Shouldn't the title be "exer…

I think part of the point is that even apparently-"mindless" exercise is now shown to also be good. See this paragraph:

> Previous studies have shown that activities that require fine motor control, such as playing a musical instrument, or that require high levels of hand-eye coordination, such as playing golf, can alter brain structure and function. However, fewer studies have looked at the effects of more repetitive athletic activities that don’t require as much precise motor control — such as running. Raichlen’s and Alexander’s findings suggest that these types of activities could have a similar effect.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#52

Post by oddlyaromatic » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #43

agumonkey wrote: post #3

I found that learning music unlocked pattern comprehensions that were very mathematical. Multiple layers of abstraction (rhythm or note points, derivatives of these two, overlay, non linear transformations, and the equivalent momentum phenomenons). Running is something that trigger creative mind activity for me. And a form of flow. I wouldn't be surprised if other physical activity would do the same: climbing, even b…

How old were you when you learned music? I've been trying to learn to play guitar on and off for 25 years now. It's a huge struggle for me. For a while I'll practice daily, make very little progress, get frustrated and bored, then quit. A year later I start over and no progress is ever made. I've had different teachers and different instruments (I love the gear part of it) and I know what's really needed is grit. I d…

I've taught guitar on and off over the years, including to retirees- I would say you are never to old too learn. Please forgive how reductive this comment will be, it may not help at all. I do think you have to have this coincidence inside you where you can learn to love practicing, and not knowing things. The trickier or more stupid something is, the more you have to love unpacking that problem, and allow yourself to dive deep into what it is made up of. That attitude was what finally got me to stick with learning programming after years as a musician. Figure out that every obstacle is a gift you can learn from. The main thing I have found that helped me in learning is that you are not teaching your hands specific positions, you are teaching your fingers specific paths between locations. Focus on the paths.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#53

Post by sctb » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

We've updated the title from “Runners and musicians have better-connected brains than the rest of us” to that of the article.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#54

Post by skookum » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

A hypothesis mentioned in the original paper: "...it is also possible that the cognitive benefits of exercise occur because locomotion is not simply an automated repetitive motor task, but is instead a highly complex behavior that involves domains related to both motor and cognitive functions. For example, walking or running through complex environments can engage several components of executive function including volition, self-awareness, planning, inhibition, monitoring, attentional switching and multi-tasking, in addition to motor control..."

If that is indeed the mechanism which accounts for the brain differences claimed, perhaps mountaineers, sidecountry & backcountry skiers or snowboarders, mountain bikers or long-distance hikers might be better groups than runners for validating this.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#55

Post by nether » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:59 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #40

agumonkey wrote: post #3

I found that learning music unlocked pattern comprehensions that were very mathematical. Multiple layers of abstraction (rhythm or note points, derivatives of these two, overlay, non linear transformations, and the equivalent momentum phenomenons). Running is something that trigger creative mind activity for me. And a form of flow. I wouldn't be surprised if other physical activity would do the same: climbing, even b…

I started running a couple months ago, I do my best thinking now while running out in nature (running in the city is not as good, too many interruptions). I've set my day up so I can go straight to the computer after I run without changing out of my running clothes or doing a bunch of transitional tasks, because that time is cognitively valuable. I'm full of ideas and want to get them down before they fade. Running t…

Why did you stop climbing?

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#56

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 4:59 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #40

agumonkey wrote: post #3

I found that learning music unlocked pattern comprehensions that were very mathematical. Multiple layers of abstraction (rhythm or note points, derivatives of these two, overlay, non linear transformations, and the equivalent momentum phenomenons). Running is something that trigger creative mind activity for me. And a form of flow. I wouldn't be surprised if other physical activity would do the same: climbing, even b…

I started running a couple months ago, I do my best thinking now while running out in nature (running in the city is not as good, too many interruptions). I've set my day up so I can go straight to the computer after I run without changing out of my running clothes or doing a bunch of transitional tasks, because that time is cognitively valuable. I'm full of ideas and want to get them down before they fade. Running t…

[deleted]

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#57

Post by Houshalter » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:05 PM UTC

There was an interesting study that looked at Facebook likes and personality types of a large number of people. They found the pages/interests that were the most heavily correlated with each of the major personality dimensions. It's really interesting and you can see the whole chart twoard the bottom of this article: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/this-algorithm-knows-you-...

Emotional stability was highly correlated with running, sports, and general outdoor activities (and also rap music, interestingly.) Is it because spending time outside makes people more emotionally stable? Or do emotionally stable people just enjoy outdoor activities more?

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#58

Post by agumonkey » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:06 PM UTC

rrauenza wrote: post #46

agumonkey wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, the day I started to isolate overlapping melodies was a huge gift. Makes me happy to read your story. After formal training, and years of wondering what the hell chord progression were about.. the day I could parse harmony in my head and focus on one line in relation to the others, everything became clear. although I cannot measure what I feel in precise way (I couldn't name the intervals) I can improvise counte…

Is there anything in particular either of you did to learn this? I've been playing saxophone for decades and still can't really parse harmonies that I hear. I sometimes wonder if it's because I play a single monophonic instrument rather than a polyphonic instrument.

I play mostly bass dont worry. I think the explanation is odd but easy. I tried singing guitar solo (little wing etc). Tried to expand range, and when it was above, I started to try to sing other instruments or backing vocals. Started with unison and fifth, then 9th etc etc. I also listened to contemporary gospel and acapella (take 6, brothers voices only, sometime they imitate instruments too, Google take 6 - jazz vive).

Also jazzfusion guitar chord progression got me to focus on funny progression. John scofield, tribal tech, r. Gatto, return to forever...) All reach your ears.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#59

Post by zw123456 » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:09 PM UTC

I have been a runner for just about my whole life (ran track in HS) is started listening to music when the small mp3 players first came out and I noticed that it seemed to interfere with my "runners high" a little bit. I know this is tied to beta endorphins but I also think there is a Zen like aspect. So I stopped using the player and instead just let my mind run free too. My theory is that running can also unlock a type of meditative experience in the brain. I notice how much more clearly I can think after. It could be an evolutionary anachronism in that when the hunter man begins to run that the brain enters a state of heightened acuity in preparation for the kill. Who knows.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#60

Post by Johnny555 » Sat, Dec 24, 2016, 5:13 PM UTC

bo1024 wrote: post #51

CopOnTheRun wrote: post #41

So maybe I missed it in the article, but it seems like they just tested a group of physically active students, and those who weren't. Does running have anything to do with the "functional connectivity" or is it just exercise in general? The article says we've known exercising is good for the brains of older people for some time now, the new study just tested the effects on younger people. Shouldn't the title be "exer…

I think part of the point is that even apparently-"mindless" exercise is now shown to also be good. See this paragraph: > Previous studies have shown that activities that require fine motor control, such as playing a musical instrument, or that require high levels of hand-eye coordination, such as playing golf, can alter brain structure and function. However, fewer studies have looked at the effects of more repetitiv…

fewer studies have looked at the effects of more repetitive athletic activities that don’t require as much precise motor control — such as running

Is it really true though that running doesn't require precise motor control? Every time I run, my feel "automatically" skip over imperfections in the road surface, placing my foot down early just before the big crack in the sidewalk, sidestepping the dog poop on the sidewalk, leaping off the curb while my eyes are focused on traffic.

And unlike the guy that plays golf where he's only focusing for a few minutes per hole, my feet are active for my entire one hour run and my mind is guiding my feet for 10,000 steps throughout the run.

It may be a different part of the brain than deciding how to hit a ball to reach a target 300m away, but there's still a lot of eye-foot coordination in running.