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Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

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Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#51

Post by dragonwriter »

SilasX wrote: post #35
DanBC wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undocumented workers still pay tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... > The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]

Yes, they pay sales tax. Not income or FICA.

I've known people who had been in the US as undocumented workers. When they were, they paid state and federal income and payroll tax, and, as a bonus, had no expectation of ever being able to use the programs funded by payroll tax.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#52

Post by mindcrime »

cryptarch wrote: post #23
mindcrime wrote: post #2

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping illegal immigrants avoid the government?

I think there's a significant idea hidden in your question. Seeing your username I hope that was intentional. How about a self-surveillance platform to measure your footprint? The idea is basically an automated network-level CTF. Get as much data out as possible, then report back with the results. You could do this with a group of friends (feed all your friends data into your analysis box), to yourself (and all your…

I think there's a significant idea hidden in your question. Seeing your username I hope that was intentional.

Well, it probably wasn't as well thought out as you might have hoped, but there's no question there's at least thin connection between my username and most of my positions on things.

The comment I made above was kind of just spur of the moment, off the cuff, to be honest. I have a fundamental and visceral disdain for government, and especially anything that hints at that Big Brother / Orwell-esque world of Nineteen Eighty Four. And it especially pains me to see technologists/hackers willfully taking part in supporting government oppression of free people. So of course I'm going to make an offhanded comment about how we should do the exact opposite.

And I feel a little snarky now, because people are always referring to Peter Thiel as a "libertarian" and this strikes me as extremely un-libertarian. And as a libertarian myself, I don't want Thiel misleading a lot of people about how libertarian ideals.

You could then use this to make sure you're not sending out data you don't want to send out in the first place; ideally you'd get to the point where your analysis tool can decrypt every packet, so that you're sure you're not sending out any data that you don't want to get out.

Sounds something like an inverse IDS. I know there are some tools out there now for monitoring outgoing traffic, but not sure if there's anything with that specific spin on it. You might be onto something there.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#54

Post by mindcrime »

SilasX wrote: post #33
mindcrime wrote: post #2

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping illegal immigrants avoid the government?

Yes, it's called "people smuggling" or "coyotes". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyotaje

I actually was thinking more about "avoiding the government" for immigrants who are already here, and over the long term, than the actual border crossing bit. But that was an interesting read nonetheless. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#55

Post by ewzimm »

ewzimm wrote: post #32
nodesocket wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait I'm confused. Are you literally upset by this? Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share for the entitlements and services you and others use then I have zero respect for you.

People tend to ignore the negative consequences of causes they support. We all want to live in the best possible world, and it's hard to accept that any policy we choose will have serious negative consequences. We know for a fact that failing to enforce immigration laws will lead to tens of thousands of murders and kidnappings every year. And yet enforcing them will lead to a lot of misery for those who are deported.…

There was a response to this which quoted some statistics, including the argument that overall crime had decreased in the USA while the illegal immigration population had increased. I wanted to respond, but it seems to be gone.

This trend is true, but this is the kind of statistical manipulation that happens when emotions come into play about these kinds of sensitive issues. Comparing trends in overall crime with the growth of a minority population is misleading, as it's a minor contributor to total crime, even if it is disproportionate, especially in violent crimes. Some arguments even switch briefly to talking about legal immigrants, which is a completely different population. Also, this is an international issue.

There's plenty of interesting information in the USA. I like this article because it shows some of the errors on both sides.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/12/04/problems-w...

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#56

Post by 234dd57d2c8db »

DanBC wrote: post #28
234dd57d2c8db wrote: post #3

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping tax cheats avoid the government. Or maybe it's time for illegal immigrants to follow the law, just like thousands of legal immigrants do? Maybe they can pay taxes for the social welfare resources they use, the free college, the free medical expenses. Do you know how frustrating it is for legal immigrants who worked hard to become legal and follow the la…

Did you see what dang said to you here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13191305 I flagged this comment, and your "black people are criminals" comment, because of the tedious race baiting. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13242008

I never submit political stories (unlike the people I reply to) and do comment on technical topics and provide insight when I have expertise in the area, such as the recent discussion on linux malware. Next!

I didn't say "black people are criminals" at all. I merely said the OP's comments logically did not make sense and provided two counterpoints where their idea did not hold water. Give me a break, you're the racist, seeing "race baiting" where there is none.

Maybe the discrepancy could be explained by lead paint, solar flares, or something else, which is why I didn't propose any causes! Especially not "black people are criminals" QUOTED. I never said that at all. YOU subconsciously created the idea that black people are criminals and tried to project that onto my simple comment. Get a brain!!

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#57

Post by dang »

234dd57d2c8db wrote: post #56
DanBC wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see what dang said to you here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13191305 I flagged this comment, and your "black people are criminals" comment, because of the tedious race baiting. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13242008

I never submit political stories (unlike the people I reply to) and do comment on technical topics and provide insight when I have expertise in the area, such as the recent discussion on linux malware. Next! I didn't say "black people are criminals" at all. I merely said the OP's comments logically did not make sense and provided two counterpoints where their idea did not hold water. Give me a break, you're the racis…

It's true that you didn't say "black people are criminals" (and DanBC shouldn't have used quotation marks to make it look like you did) and also that you sometimes comment on non-political topics.

Unfortunately, it's still also true that you're posting a lot of angry ideological rants to this site. That's an abuse of HN, which is meant to be for thoughtful discussion, not political battle. So please stop.

You've also been uncivil, including several times in the current thread. We ban accounts that do that. Please don't do that any more.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#58

Post by dang »

234dd57d2c8db wrote: post #3

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping tax cheats avoid the government. Or maybe it's time for illegal immigrants to follow the law, just like thousands of legal immigrants do? Maybe they can pay taxes for the social welfare resources they use, the free college, the free medical expenses. Do you know how frustrating it is for legal immigrants who worked hard to become legal and follow the la…

We detached this ideological rant from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13241948 and marked it off-topic.

All: please don't post like this. It poisons the environment and kills thoughtful discussion.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#59

Post by mzw_mzw »

twblalock wrote: post #46
mixedCase wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarian doesn't equal open borders, as that's a broad political spectrum. Hell, even some anarcho-capitalists (like the late Murray Rothbard and Hans-Hermann Hoppe) are against open borders.

It's not about borders or immigration -- that is just this specific case. Palantir helps big government in a variety of ways which are incompatible with a libertarian worldview.

Says who? You can't go up to people and tell them what their views are. They get to decide.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#60

Post by dogma1138 »

throwaw12ay wrote: post #45
mixedCase wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarian doesn't equal open borders, as that's a broad political spectrum. Hell, even some anarcho-capitalists (like the late Murray Rothbard and Hans-Hermann Hoppe) are against open borders.

I think the point is like Musk, these people hardly refuse government subsidizes. You might argue they provide a service, they are not getting a handout, but it's still paid by the same taxes they want to get rid off at first place.

Libertarians are not universally against taxation or Government involvement at large, it's a pretty wide umbrella.

Musk can also be seen as a libertarian but he does advocate for social programmes like UBI which have to be provided through taxation.

Most libertarians I know are not universally against taxation, they are against double taxation and would prefer to tax corporation and consumption at higher rates rather than individual labor.

Libertarianism is primarily about the role of the government within the life of an individual and about maximizing the agency an individual holds over their own life; It doesn't mean that an ideal libertarian society would have no taxes; If anything most libertarians would rather pay higher local taxes to offset lower national taxation because they have more agency in determining on what and how their money is being spent on.

Libertarians don't want anarchy, they are fully aware that roads, schools, police, firefighters, EMT's the military and for most of them even hospitals and much more have to be publically funded, and the only way to do it is through taxation.

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