Live data from Hacker News

Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

bloomberg.com

51–60 of 75 posts

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#51
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have laws that do tell you how you can and cannot use your house, computer, phone, and car. Pedantic examples: - You cannot imprison another adult human within your house. - You cannot access a secured computer system with your computer. - You cannot (could not?) use your phone during certain parts of airplane takeoff and landing, and they may not be allowed in certain buildings. - You cannot park your car wher…

It appears that you equate imprisonment with someone occupying an unused home. Is that correct ?

From the other examples, I think it's pretty clear that it's just a list of examples. What do you read into the others provided?

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#52
post #35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you should have the ability to force other people how to use the house they paid for? Should I be able to tell you how to use your computer, phone, or car?

Should I be able to tell you how to use your computer, phone, or car? No. Land is different from all of those other things. We can always make millions more cars, phones, and computers. We can't make millions of additional housing units in economically important cities like San Francisco, New York, Vancouver, Toronto, etc. So it behooves us to make sure that housing in those places is being used efficiently instead o…

Let's use your house more efficiently. If you live in the United States, I bet you have a house that could fit at least two more families in it. Do you mind if I move in some of my relatives? Or, more specifically do you mind if your neighbors passed such a law?

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#53
post #23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you should have the ability to force other people how to use the house they paid for? Should I be able to tell you how to use your computer, phone, or car?

The broadest solution is very high property taxes - ideally a land value tax - in order to encourage productive use of property and limit speculative bubbles.

Who decides what productive means? I think you should be working a second and third job. I don't think you're productive enough.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#54
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can stack houses though. That does work pretty well.

It works pretty well in theory, not so well in practice. Too many issues with neighbourhood associations, land values, zoning, infrastructure, etc. It actually turns out to be very hard to increase the housing stock in a lot of major cities.

I'd say it's overwhelmingly due to the regulatory straightjacket these cities are caught in. Municipal and regional governments have made it extremely difficult to add new housing through increased density, and then they find that prices are climbing sharply, and wonder "how did this happen?!" Well, supply was choked off.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#55

"The week that the government announced Vancouver’s foreign tax," Which government? Fed, state, municipal?

The article is pretty lazy with describing the tax. The municipal government of Vancouver doesn't have any of these taxing powers, and the tax comes from the Provincial government. It only applies to the Metro Vancouver area however, so some are already stating that there has been a spillover effect in other areas of the Province, such as Victoria.

The foreigner tax is provincial (applying only to Metro Van). The vacancy tax is municipal, applying to CoV. The city requested special taxing powers from the province for this tax and received it.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#56
post #53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The broadest solution is very high property taxes - ideally a land value tax - in order to encourage productive use of property and limit speculative bubbles.

Who decides what productive means? I think you should be working a second and third job. I don't think you're productive enough.

You answered your own question - money (e.g. the second job) is how we measure productivity.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#57

It's strange that there is so much push back against foreign investment. Rather than enact a bunch of projectionist policies, wouldn't it be better to just adapt to the investment in a way that benefits natives? After all, when foreign people want to buy something you have, that is called an export, and most people agree those are good for the economy. If foreigners are investing in housing, local governments will re…

> It's strange that there is so much push back against foreign investment.

You say "foreign investment" as if they're looking to develop or improve the local economy and in the process make a profit. Many Chinese buyers have been targeting foreign real estate as a way to combat the fluctuations of their local currency, which is under suspicion of government manipulation. They're "investing" because there's nothing of long-term value in local areas, so they buy foreign properties in more stable markets. Without any consideration of the effect on the people living in that market.

> when foreign people want to buy something you have, that is called an export

Local goods that are shipped to foreign locations are called exports, and they're subject to significant extra taxation. Local resources such as land, water, food and energy that are bought and taken off the market to create shortages, thus increasing the cost of living for locals (thus increasing the value of your investment at the expense of others) aren't called exports. They're called market manipulation (or market speculation, if you're being generous).

> [Various comments about housing density]

Many of these properties lay vacant, which further drives up the cost of housing in already expensive locales. These buyers often aren't targeting areas for building commercial or high-density housing. They're buying multiple houses at the middle-class level, which contributes to an already vanishing middle class. The cost of houses and apartments in these areas has multiplied by 1.5x-3.5x the original value in a very short period of time. Unbalanced inflation like this perennial issue in the US given the lack of sufficient corporate oversight. Artificial inflation (beyond currency inflation) of the cost of living should be the prime issue for any major city.

Allowing them to buy and sit on valuable land that could be developed when they have no intention of development actually prevents us from increasing housing density in these high-demand areas. That's the whole reason they're introducing this tax. As long as there's some sort of time-limited exemption for actual construction and development that will cover people building new commercial and high-density housing structures, it's exactly the sort of thing we should be doing with our rate of population increase.

> rents were more reasonable in Tokyo

It's also perniciously difficult to rent in Tokyo as a foreigner. And when moving into a new apartment, locals will often pay a move-in gift of 3x the monthly rent as a tradition from post-war shortages. Japan also has a much more advanced public transit system, allowing for longer commute times and more stable pricing. China also doesn't allow foreigners to buy land or open businesses. In any case, Vancouver's and Seattle's current unreasonable rents are a factor from external manipulation, so once we curb the foreign investors who don't develop or use property, it should become much more competitive.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#58
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you should have the ability to force other people how to use the house they paid for? Should I be able to tell you how to use your computer, phone, or car?

They should consider becoming citizens if they want to get the same treatment as citizens in the country. Most countries have significant limitations on what non-citizens can purchase, try buying land in China.

My favorite counterargument! Duly upvoted. I did try buying real estate in China. Just ended up giving money to my in-laws instead.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#59
post #56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides what productive means? I think you should be working a second and third job. I don't think you're productive enough.

You answered your own question - money (e.g. the second job) is how we measure productivity.

As far as I can tell, my property taxes do not change according to my productivity.

Re: Vancouver Housing Tax Pushes Chinese to $1M Seattle Homes

#60
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you think that they pay taxes. >An unusually high number of Vancouver homeowners living in multi-million dollar neighbourhoods but reporting poverty-level incomes is a red flag that needs immediate government action, says NDP MLA David Eby. >“The focus should be quite straightforward: are you paying your worldwide taxes inside British Columbia, or not?” Eby, who represents Vancouver-Point Grey, told r…

It still seems like a property tax assessment on the house, which doesn't take into consideration the owners tax bracket, Would benefit the community the local governments?

Property tax on residences isn't they only place municipalities get revenue, they also get taxes from commercial (shops & companies) property. If the foreign owners never move into the house and don't rent[0] it there is no additional revenue in the form of purchasing things or working at an employer in the city.

[0]https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-province/20141127/281...

Post reply on HN