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The World in 2076

newscientist.com

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Re: The World in 2076

#51

Post by wlll »

bwindels wrote: post #29

I feel it's unfortunate articles like these don't put more emphasis on climate change, and instead still keep up the narrative that we will innovate ourselves out of the problem. There is not reason to believe we will, and I expect society as a whole to already be heavily impacted by climate change by 2076. The more people are talking about the fact that human civilization won't survive 4 degrees of warming in a 100…

This is the thing that has me utterly scared. I've got young daughters who may potentially live to 2100 and the state of the world in the years leading up that point has me incredibly worried. I wish I was thinking more positively about their future rather than wondering where will be the best place to grow food given climate change, how will they protect themselves, or where is the best place to shelter in my house if a nuke hits the local city.

To paraphrase a 70 year old man I talked to "I'm glad I have been alive in the time period I have", and that was before Trump and everything that stands for too.

Re: The World in 2076

#52

Post by throwaway729 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #26
hbt wrote: post #19

The anti-innovation backlash is the most likely thing to happen. Today, politicians are winning the populace by lamenting on unfair trade deals, globalism and foreigners taking jobs. Those jobs are not coming back, if they are, certainly not to humans. We will see a growing class of people who are economically useless. (read Professor Yuval Noah Harari new book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_Deus:_A_Brief_History…

The anti-innovation backlash is here. Shiv Sena, the racist party of Maharashtra, has also been pushing luddism mixed with racism. No Biharis should get an auto driver license, and they want to stop technology (Uber, Ola) from allowing Biharis/etc to compete via other means. http://www.afternoondc.in/city-news/shiv-sena-mns-raise-red-... http://www.newsgram.com/maharashtra-only-marathi-auto-driver... There were even…

I think your examples are a bit hyper-bolic.

First, anti-innovation and anti-technology are two different things. Your parent seems to be referring to innovation in the tech innovation sense.

Second, opposing specific companies that market themselves as the epitome of innovation (Uber, AirBnB) is not the same as being genuinely anti-innovation. It's possible to oppose specific (esp. business model!!!) innovations without adopting an anti-innovation or anti-technology mindset.

I don't see anything particularly worrying about people opposing specific innovations -- especially innovations tied more to business innovation than technology innovation (e.g., human Ubers and AirBnB's). Municipalities opposed to sharing economy apps aren't blinding following some unsubstantiated populist sentiment. They typically have a different set of priorities and assessments, but it's not generally accurate to characterize those concerns as luddism.

Anti-technology is much scarier than and very different from opposition to "sharing economy" apps. Conflating to two cheapens the meaning of anti-technology and makes it harder to oppose true luddism.

Re: The World in 2076

#53

Post by cowl »

bwindels wrote: post #29

I feel it's unfortunate articles like these don't put more emphasis on climate change, and instead still keep up the narrative that we will innovate ourselves out of the problem. There is not reason to believe we will, and I expect society as a whole to already be heavily impacted by climate change by 2076. The more people are talking about the fact that human civilization won't survive 4 degrees of warming in a 100…

I feel it's unfortunate that comments like this continue to spread the naive idea that anything but innovation will resolve the climate issue. Human nature is what it is. There is plenty of historic evidence to believe that innovation is our way out. Like we innovated ourselves out of material scarcity during the industrial revolution. Like we innovated ourselves out of the coal Industrial era using other carbon fuels. Like we have already started to innovate ourselves out of the hydrocarbon era with other energetic sources which by the way will need to be out-innovated again by our grandchildren because they are not perfect too.

Re: The World in 2076

#54

Post by eli_gottlieb »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #26
hbt wrote: post #19

The anti-innovation backlash is the most likely thing to happen. Today, politicians are winning the populace by lamenting on unfair trade deals, globalism and foreigners taking jobs. Those jobs are not coming back, if they are, certainly not to humans. We will see a growing class of people who are economically useless. (read Professor Yuval Noah Harari new book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_Deus:_A_Brief_History…

The anti-innovation backlash is here. Shiv Sena, the racist party of Maharashtra, has also been pushing luddism mixed with racism. No Biharis should get an auto driver license, and they want to stop technology (Uber, Ola) from allowing Biharis/etc to compete via other means. http://www.afternoondc.in/city-news/shiv-sena-mns-raise-red-... http://www.newsgram.com/maharashtra-only-marathi-auto-driver... There were even…

I wouldn't exactly call Uber a piece of innovation. It's a phone app for hiring taxi drivers from a pool of cheap labor. You want to claim innovation? Let's find the people torching self-driving cars.

Re: The World in 2076

#55

Post by eli_gottlieb »

knz wrote: post #50
drinchev wrote: post #32

As older as I get ( 30 now ) I feel more and more the world is going to dystopia, rather than utopia. Instead of having a world-wide federation, we will most probably have a period of dissonance around the nations where people will close more and more inside their borders, until they feel they have the power of their lives in their hands again. I know you won't like it, but I will blame unregulated capitalism for thi…

I'm not sure capitalism deserves the entire blame - some of it is just human nature (it's harder to care about something that happens in a distant location or time). The question is what can we do about it? How do we rebuild public trust in the institutions (science and education) that should guide the country in the right path even if the people are asleep at the wheel? Trust in experts is at an all time low. Fact c…

>The question is what can we do about it? How do we rebuild public trust in the institutions (science and education) that should guide the country in the right path even if the people are asleep at the wheel? Trust in experts is at an all time low. Fact checking appears to have failed = "The fact checkers are biased!". And people are retreating into their media bubbles.

Experts and institutions need to care about the people and stand up against the malign parts of the capitalist establishment.

Re: The World in 2076

#56

Post by guard-of-terra »

acqq wrote: post #30
goalieca wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries that turn their back on science will fall behind.

Exactly. "What has happened in these nations to support these discoveries and what has happened when they ended?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo&t=22m47s Around 10 minutes on that subject, that part of the presentation is called the "Naming Rights."

That's an awesome video, I think you should post it separately.

Re: The World in 2076

#57

Post by hsod »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #54
yummyfajitas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-innovation backlash is here. Shiv Sena, the racist party of Maharashtra, has also been pushing luddism mixed with racism. No Biharis should get an auto driver license, and they want to stop technology (Uber, Ola) from allowing Biharis/etc to compete via other means. http://www.afternoondc.in/city-news/shiv-sena-mns-raise-red-... http://www.newsgram.com/maharashtra-only-marathi-auto-driver... There were even…

I wouldn't exactly call Uber a piece of innovation . It's a phone app for hiring taxi drivers from a pool of cheap labor. You want to claim innovation? Let's find the people torching self-driving cars.

Five years ago if I wanted to hire a car to pick me and up and take me somewhere I had to call a taxi company and pray that someone would show up 90 minutes later. Now I hit a button and someone is at my door in ~5 minutes.

Re: The World in 2076

#58

Post by yummyfajitas »

throwaway729 wrote: post #52
yummyfajitas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-innovation backlash is here. Shiv Sena, the racist party of Maharashtra, has also been pushing luddism mixed with racism. No Biharis should get an auto driver license, and they want to stop technology (Uber, Ola) from allowing Biharis/etc to compete via other means. http://www.afternoondc.in/city-news/shiv-sena-mns-raise-red-... http://www.newsgram.com/maharashtra-only-marathi-auto-driver... There were even…

I think your examples are a bit hyper-bolic. First, anti-innovation and anti-technology are two different things. Your parent seems to be referring to innovation in the tech innovation sense. Second, opposing specific companies that market themselves as the epitome of innovation (Uber, AirBnB) is not the same as being genuinely anti-innovation. It's possible to oppose specific (esp. business model!!!) innovations wit…

I don't think anyone, besides maybe a few extreme environmentalists, is opposed to technology in the abstract.

All luddism - including the original luddites - are opposed to specific technology that they believe harms them. The original luddites were manual weavers who were opposed to mechanical looms that did their job faster and better than they did. The modern luddites are lazy Marathi auto drivers who are opposed to Uber (or Biharis) outcompeting them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

Re: The World in 2076

#59

Post by yummyfajitas »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #54
yummyfajitas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-innovation backlash is here. Shiv Sena, the racist party of Maharashtra, has also been pushing luddism mixed with racism. No Biharis should get an auto driver license, and they want to stop technology (Uber, Ola) from allowing Biharis/etc to compete via other means. http://www.afternoondc.in/city-news/shiv-sena-mns-raise-red-... http://www.newsgram.com/maharashtra-only-marathi-auto-driver... There were even…

I wouldn't exactly call Uber a piece of innovation . It's a phone app for hiring taxi drivers from a pool of cheap labor. You want to claim innovation? Let's find the people torching self-driving cars.

There is a world of difference between "hiring X from a pool of cheap labor" and what Uber does. ODesk is hiring X from a cheap pool of labor. Uber is push a button and you get where you are going.

Fundamentally, Uber is a Walrasian auctioneer that solves the socialist calculation problem within the transportation sector.

I consider that to be innovation.

Re: The World in 2076

#60

Post by acqq »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #56
acqq wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. "What has happened in these nations to support these discoveries and what has happened when they ended?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo&t=22m47s Around 10 minutes on that subject, that part of the presentation is called the "Naming Rights."

That's an awesome video, I think you should post it separately.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. I'm not in an way involved with the videos, I just remembered the talk and searched for it for the post. It's just a part of the talks that happened in Salk Institute, La Jolla, CA, November 5-7, 2006. There is more, but it can possibly disappear from the internet in this form if it gets too much attention. Maybe it's better leaving them in the comments.
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