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Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

win3mu.com

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Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#51

Post by voltagex_ »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #17

So, it's a closed source implementation of an API for an old OS/Windowing system atop DOS. Despite the fact that both DOSBox and Wine will run them fine. And it's aimed at gaming, but most games quit windows and just ran on straight dos, so DOSBox is a better option anyways, especially considering that you're expecting me to pay for this, even though you've already said the compatability isn't great, and Wine and DOS…

Or, a really interesting project plus a great series of blog posts.

From the FAQ on the author's site:

>Is it open source, can I contribute? >>Thanks, but no thanks. This project was started as a personal challenge/learning exercise. To have others contribute would defeat the purpose right now.

Which I don't quite agree with (why not just not accept pull requests?), but it's fair enough.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#52

Post by voltagex_ »

amyjess wrote: post #47
rossy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an argument to be had about FOSS vs. proprietary software in general, but I think it's pretty clear when it comes to emulators. There is something wrong with closed-source emulators. Everyone who develops an emulator for a platform is working towards the common goal of preserving the software that runs on that platform so that people can continue to use it well into the future. All emulators build on research…

> God forbid people will have to start running emulators on emulators when the best emulator for a certain platform stops being compatible with modern operating systems. Sadly, this is already happening. bZSNES is actually a thing now, since so many popular SNES romhacks will only run in ZSNES (i.e. not on real hardware, and not on a more accurate emulator like Snes9X or Higan), but ZSNES is written in 32-bit x86 ass…

Jesus, you're not joking.

https://github.com/mudlord/bzsnes-libretro is a port of some kind (NSFW commits possibly). Has byuu gone into hiding? His Twitter is protected and I can't find any safe source for the "original" bzsnes.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#53

Post by nitrogen »

JonathonW wrote: post #24
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they have the “Windows Classic” look and feel.

Wine actually has (mostly) functional theming support-- point Wine to a .msstyles theme DLL and it'll draw themed controls (rather than the Windows Classic style default). They just don't ship a theme with Wine; understandable for licensing reasons (they can't distribute Microsoft's designs), but it means that Wine looks like Windows 2000 out of the box.

The .msstyles support in Wine was terribly slow last time I tried it. Has it improved?

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#54

Post by Aloha »

amyjess wrote: post #45
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Wine already exists. If Wine is ported to run on Windows, this project is redundant, I'd assume? (In fact, it strikes me now that if you're on Windows 10, you could probably run Wine on the WSL.)

16-bit applications can't run in long mode (i.e. a 64-bit OS), so you'll need a 32-bit OS to run these apps in WINE. WINE is just a shim and a library reimplementation, not an emulator, so it just passes the instructions on to the CPU, and you're limited by what the CPU can do. Hmm... I wonder if you can run 16-bit applications in WINE on a 32-bit VirtualBox VM running on a 64-bit Linux system. That sounds like overk…

Yes, you can.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#55

Post by Jaruzel »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #17

So, it's a closed source implementation of an API for an old OS/Windowing system atop DOS. Despite the fact that both DOSBox and Wine will run them fine. And it's aimed at gaming, but most games quit windows and just ran on straight dos, so DOSBox is a better option anyways, especially considering that you're expecting me to pay for this, even though you've already said the compatability isn't great, and Wine and DOS…

It's specifically aimed at old Windows Games, of which there are many. It's not for old 16bit DOS games like Monkey Island or Elite for example.

So people out there have stacks of old CDs with freeware Windows Games on them (popular on the covers of the Magazines of the time) - this project would nicely re-open the use of these games.

Additionally, if he completes this, then there is a also a LOT of old 16 bit productivity and encyclopedia type software that never made the jump to 32 bit.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#56

Post by oddsignals »

voltagex_ wrote: post #52
amyjess wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> God forbid people will have to start running emulators on emulators when the best emulator for a certain platform stops being compatible with modern operating systems. Sadly, this is already happening. bZSNES is actually a thing now, since so many popular SNES romhacks will only run in ZSNES (i.e. not on real hardware, and not on a more accurate emulator like Snes9X or Higan), but ZSNES is written in 32-bit x86 ass…

Jesus, you're not joking. https://github.com/mudlord/bzsnes-libretro is a port of some kind (NSFW commits possibly). Has byuu gone into hiding? His Twitter is protected and I can't find any safe source for the "original" bzsnes.

byuu posted an article on his blog (byuu.org) just two days ago. His emulator was called bsnes, not bzsnes, maybe that's the source of confusion? bsnes has now evolved into higan, so that might also be why you can't find it. The higan source is mirrored on gitlab: https://gitlab.com/higan/higan

edit: sorry, wasn't aware of the (april fools) bzsnes release, realise now that I'm probably more confused than you are.

edit 2: the "original" bznes source (AFAICT) is on archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20151105124237/http://snesemu.bl...

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#57

Post by Nullabillity »

voltagex_ wrote: post #42
lbenes wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Wine implements the Win16 API. I just tried tetris and ski and the both worked fine in wine-1.9.22 (Staging). Didn't even need to even create a 32-bit profile.

What distro are you on? I always find it difficult to use newer Wine versions on Debian.

I'd recommend PlayOnLinux instead of using your distro's Wine. Makes it really simple to have a separate prefix per application, and is usually updated with new versions very quickly.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#58

Post by chungy »

amyjess wrote: post #45
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Wine already exists. If Wine is ported to run on Windows, this project is redundant, I'd assume? (In fact, it strikes me now that if you're on Windows 10, you could probably run Wine on the WSL.)

16-bit applications can't run in long mode (i.e. a 64-bit OS), so you'll need a 32-bit OS to run these apps in WINE. WINE is just a shim and a library reimplementation, not an emulator, so it just passes the instructions on to the CPU, and you're limited by what the CPU can do. Hmm... I wonder if you can run 16-bit applications in WINE on a 32-bit VirtualBox VM running on a 64-bit Linux system. That sounds like overk…

64-bit Wine has been capable of running Win16 apps for years. It does require the Win16 app to be fully protected mode, but it works fine.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#59

Post by rhabarba »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #9
mmastrac wrote: post #6

This is an awesome project. I highly recommend reading through his series on Medium (eg https://medium.com/@CantabileApp/implementing-window-messagi... ) That being said, I think he is overestimating the market that would pay for this. This seems like it could attract at least a small community as an open source project, however. Unfortunately effort in development is not always rewarded with monetary gain. Perhaps h…

Also, Wine already exists. If Wine is ported to run on Windows, this project is redundant, I'd assume? (In fact, it strikes me now that if you're on Windows 10, you could probably run Wine on the WSL.)

Win3mu seems to be an emulator, Wine does not.

Re: Win3mu – Windows 3 Emulator

#60

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

I've been following the blog posts with great interest but I don't understand the move to turn it into a commercial project. I just don't think there's enough demand, especially for games (how many Win31-specific games were there?)

Where this would be incredibly useful would be for a lot of industrial automation, POS and other commercial software still stuck on Win31. Seems like it would make more sense to release an open source version and then add stuff like raw serial/parallel support as commercial add-ons to cover these cases.

Still, I don't blame Brad for wanting to get some return on his investment, he has put in a huge amount of work and it looks like a very well thought out and executed project.

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