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Nyancat on the touchbar

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Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#51

So... just about the touchbar and not this particular project: The touchbar is on the keyboard, almost perpendicularly (and many times at an obtuse angle) opposite to the screen. So I have to move my head up and down all the time. This is not an issue with the regular keyboard because it has physical buttons which don't change their meaning, so I have memorized the layout and I can use my muscle memory. To avoid movi…

Is your premise correct though? Will you need to move your head up and down? Isn't the touch bar will be in your field of vision?

Even if your premise is true, is it better to move your head up and down or to move your hands forward and backward to reach the touch screen?

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#52
post #18
post #8

To evoke maximum outrage, you should show AdMob mobile banner ads on the Touch Bar. First app to do it wins a free press cycle.

Don't give anyone ideas.

If I could afford one of the new Macs I would have already started working on this...surely someone else will.

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#53

So... just about the touchbar and not this particular project: The touchbar is on the keyboard, almost perpendicularly (and many times at an obtuse angle) opposite to the screen. So I have to move my head up and down all the time. This is not an issue with the regular keyboard because it has physical buttons which don't change their meaning, so I have memorized the layout and I can use my muscle memory. To avoid movi…

"So I have to move my head up and down all the time."

I believe that for the use-case of Touch Bar as slider, it has similar behavioral characteristics as a trackpad. Do you use a trackpad? Or a mouse? Do you find yourself moving your eyes back and forth between the screen and the trackpad or mouse? Honest questions. I'm not trying to be snarky :)

As for custom keys, I think this has more in common with chording/key commands. There is the distinction that there aren't physical keys, but in the case of key commands, I know I'm not thinking, say, ⌘-Z when I undo. I'm just thinking Undo. And many key commands are application dependent. As I get used to whatever custom keys I've got programmed or are made available by an application, there'll be some period of acclimation, and then it'll just become habit. Perhaps to offset the lack of physical gaps between keys there will be larger target areas on the Touch Bar.

What do you think? Are these comparisons useful? If not, what are their limitations?

I do think the Touch Bar would benefit from some kind of haptic response, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the direction it goes.

I also wouldn't be surprised if at some time in the future there is a touch screen for Macs. That doesn't mean that Apple is ready to release such a MacBook yet (for whatever reason), or that the Touch Bar isn't a valid feature. And while it's generating a lot of heat at this point, until there are a lot more hands-on (cough) reports, I think it's prudent to remember a lot of this is speculation, both for and against.

Edit to add: If you choose to down vote, please take the time to reply with a comment as well in the interest of communication. Thanks!

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#55
post #51

So... just about the touchbar and not this particular project: The touchbar is on the keyboard, almost perpendicularly (and many times at an obtuse angle) opposite to the screen. So I have to move my head up and down all the time. This is not an issue with the regular keyboard because it has physical buttons which don't change their meaning, so I have memorized the layout and I can use my muscle memory. To avoid movi…

Is your premise correct though? Will you need to move your head up and down? Isn't the touch bar will be in your field of vision? Even if your premise is true, is it better to move your head up and down or to move your hands forward and backward to reach the touch screen?

> Is your premise correct though? Will you need to move your head up and down? Isn't the touch bar will be in your field of vision?

Considering zero part of my keyboard is in my field of vision I'd say yes I'd have to move my head up and down. I haven't had a chance to play with the new MacBook Pro yet but it seems like a reasonable assumption.

> Even if your premise is true, is it better to move your head up and down or to move your hands forward and backward to reach the touch screen?

It's actually two different use cases here. A touch screen helps with touch type of controls. So precision zooming and scrolling is kinda awesome on one (though scrolling is weak with the nice touchpad). The touchbar is meant to be more utility like a row of function keys.

I don't think it's entirely fair to directly compare the two. For instance moving it to the bottom of the screen instead of the top of the keyboard turns it from easy to access touch keys to more informational. At least in my opinion.

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#56
post #53

So... just about the touchbar and not this particular project: The touchbar is on the keyboard, almost perpendicularly (and many times at an obtuse angle) opposite to the screen. So I have to move my head up and down all the time. This is not an issue with the regular keyboard because it has physical buttons which don't change their meaning, so I have memorized the layout and I can use my muscle memory. To avoid movi…

"So I have to move my head up and down all the time." I believe that for the use-case of Touch Bar as slider, it has similar behavioral characteristics as a trackpad. Do you use a trackpad? Or a mouse? Do you find yourself moving your eyes back and forth between the screen and the trackpad or mouse? Honest questions. I'm not trying to be snarky :) As for custom keys, I think this has more in common with chording/key…

Trackpad, mouse, etc, is not a good comparable. Unlike a trackpad or mouse, the touch bar is a video display. Being a display implies visual interaction, and the lack of physical feedback will make 'touch typing' the touch bar difficult.

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#57

So... just about the touchbar and not this particular project: The touchbar is on the keyboard, almost perpendicularly (and many times at an obtuse angle) opposite to the screen. So I have to move my head up and down all the time. This is not an issue with the regular keyboard because it has physical buttons which don't change their meaning, so I have memorized the layout and I can use my muscle memory. To avoid movi…

It should be legal to murder someone for touching your laptop screen. I can't think of a bigger co-worker foul than that.

Making a screen that people are supposed to touch would be an unthinkable crime.

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#58
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't give anyone ideas.

If I could afford one of the new Macs I would have already started working on this...surely someone else will.

You don't need a new Mac to work on this, Xcode can show a software touch bar for development.

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#59
post #40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But will it work like a key?

It should be possible with enough care. A touch sensitive space bar would really enhance a keyboard (I'm mostly using a desktop though, doesn't make sense on a laptop)

That actually sounds like a pretty brilliant idea to me.

If the space bar area was converted to the track pad. Tapping it would be a space, while dragging it would give you the touch bar like features. So for example, when using Word, you have formatting options on the space touch bar like they demonstrated on the touch bar. If you tap it, it's a space, but start sliding from the left, and the formatting options appear on the screen itself, and you stop sliding when you reach the option you want to select it. Basically, tap to touch, and slide to scrub between options (or between a timeline).

This way you also wouldn't have to take your eyes off the screen to know what options are available.

Re: Nyancat on the touchbar

#60
post #56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So I have to move my head up and down all the time." I believe that for the use-case of Touch Bar as slider, it has similar behavioral characteristics as a trackpad. Do you use a trackpad? Or a mouse? Do you find yourself moving your eyes back and forth between the screen and the trackpad or mouse? Honest questions. I'm not trying to be snarky :) As for custom keys, I think this has more in common with chording/key…

Trackpad, mouse, etc, is not a good comparable. Unlike a trackpad or mouse, the touch bar is a video display. Being a display implies visual interaction, and the lack of physical feedback will make 'touch typing' the touch bar difficult.

Yes, it has a display component. I don't see how that implies it must always be used by looking at it. Keys (usually) have labels on them, yet many people don't use the labels as reference once they're accustomed to touch typing.

Learning key commands can be a chore, requiring use of the manual or discovery through menus. Do you remember cards provided with some applications that included lists of command key commands? The Touch Bar makes things like that instantly available. And once you learn where they are, you don't need to be looking at them.

There are probably going to be some interesting interaction possibilities where we're going to want use the Touch Bar in a more visual way.

One I can think of is the autocomplete demo during the Hello Again event. I personally think autocomplete would be better served keyboard alone in a manner similar to how the spelling and grammar suggestions work, rather than through the Touch Bar, but again, that's not having used it.

I completely agree that it is a new input device. Just not completely new. Some things are going to carry over from the keyboard, the trackpad, and the touch screen. And I agree the lack of physical response may take some getting used to. As I mentioned, I think we'll see improvements on this in the future.

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