Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#51

Post by kleinsch » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

ovulator wrote: post #35

pyrophane wrote: post #18

Now, I have to preface this by saying that I don't know much about football and even less about coaching it, but I wonder how much of this speaks to a lack of a real need for a technology solution for coaches. If it were providing a lot of value to them, I imagine they'd have a harder giving it up. This NFL suggests that there is such a need: "Since Microsoft has been a partner of the N.F.L. and implemented their tec…

I'm sure there is huge value to coaches. Pull up our list of plays for 4th and one in the redzone. That list then shows immediately what personnel are best for it and who of those personnel may be out of the game right now. QB just threw an interception, lets look over the play that just happened to see what he overlooked and how we can adjust. The problem with technology in this case, is that there is no room for er…

The scenarios you list are valuable, but they have old school paper based ways to do both of those. That's what Belichick is rolling back to.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#52

Post by nhangen » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

yk wrote: post #26

pyrophane wrote: post #18

Now, I have to preface this by saying that I don't know much about football and even less about coaching it, but I wonder how much of this speaks to a lack of a real need for a technology solution for coaches. If it were providing a lot of value to them, I imagine they'd have a harder giving it up. This NFL suggests that there is such a need: "Since Microsoft has been a partner of the N.F.L. and implemented their tec…

Belichick is considered the best coach in football of the last twenty odd years, so he has probably his process with pen and paper nailed down. And the thing is, new technology requires a learning curve both individually and also on a larger scale culturally, so I would guess that tablets after a year or so of use would provide a lot of value, however they do not do so now.

Surface tablets have been in use for at least a few years, maybe 3-5.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#53

Post by greedo » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

Network issues are most likely the problem, especially if the devices are issued by the NFL prior to gametime.

A coach needs a few things to really make this valuable. First they need a play chart for selecting the appropriate play call for the corresponding down and distance. This can be a canned application that doesn't require network connectivity after it's been loaded, but networking would allow an assistant to update the player personnel availability in real time so that you don't call a play with improper personnel.

The other thing the tablets replaced was the physical photos the teams used to use to review plays. The NFL previously made the teams use B&W photos sent down to the sidelines. They don't want the teams to use live replays for some reason, though the monstrous displays in most stadiums make this dumb.

So if you take out the network connection, these lose a lot of their value. I can't imagine a more hostile environment for Wifi than a stadium packed with a bazillion cellphones, plus goofy atmospherics due to design.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#54

Post by mountaineer22 » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC

tstrass wrote: post #46

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if a play that might win or lose your game is hinging on you being able to use a piece of software to do something, your quality requirement will be just as high regardless of your age... that would be like saying that a young trader might care less about a bug in their trading software that lost them $$$ compared an older trader...

Fair point if the problems are just crashes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick was getting that frustrated over much more minor things at a time when the game is not on the line. In my experience many older people have extremely low tolerance for usage of technology not going perfectly. For example, I could picture BB chucking the tablet from something like a slight lag when navigating menus or even just disso…

Sounds more like Larry Ellison and a home automation controller.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#55

Post by babesh » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:38 PM UTC

Did you know that 30 years ago, Polaroids were the new hotness? The difference between those and today's tablets is that the Polaroids were utterly reliable. Both provide additional value from what was there before.

The interesting question is why the new tablet/network is unreliable. My contention is that many physical processes are not vulnerable to single points of failure but that software is.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#56

Post by 6stringmerc » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

On the one hand, it's a reasoned, eloquent, logical gripe about technology not functioning as intended for its target audience, an NFL head coach.

On the other hand, this is Bill Belichick doing the talking, so I take the bulk of his complaints about the communications equipment with a healthy dose of skepticism. If you're not familiar with Mr. Belichick, he's earned the reputation of being worthy of suspicion when it comes to either exploiting a loophole in the rules or potentially breaking them outright and trying to explain them away[1]. A quick search[2] dredges up numerous cases of NFL teams visiting Gillette Stadium and experiencing significant communications system difficulties.

So, the cynic in me would like to pose a tentative solution to Bill: If his team would shut off whatever jammers and bullshit disruption devices they're using on the visiting opponents, maybe his equipment wouldn't fuck up as much either.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_vide...

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=radio+trouble+gillette+stadi...

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#57

Post by mountaineer22 » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:43 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #43

I wonder if there is an actual product here or if there is just a product placement. And by that I mean has anyone sat down with coaches and said "Given what you do in a game on the sidelines, the choices you are making, the questions you are asking, and options you are trying to weigh; Is there a way to improve the tools you've already been using with some automation?" Anyone know?

I don't, but why would a coach give up his expert knowledge to all other coaches he is potentially competing against?

The incentives for all parties involved in this situation is less than ideal.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#58

Post by jlv2 » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

ovulator wrote: post #35

pyrophane wrote: post #18

Now, I have to preface this by saying that I don't know much about football and even less about coaching it, but I wonder how much of this speaks to a lack of a real need for a technology solution for coaches. If it were providing a lot of value to them, I imagine they'd have a harder giving it up. This NFL suggests that there is such a need: "Since Microsoft has been a partner of the N.F.L. and implemented their tec…

I'm sure there is huge value to coaches. Pull up our list of plays for 4th and one in the redzone. That list then shows immediately what personnel are best for it and who of those personnel may be out of the game right now. QB just threw an interception, lets look over the play that just happened to see what he overlooked and how we can adjust. The problem with technology in this case, is that there is no room for er…

I suspect what makes someone a good coach is that they already know to a high degree what personnel are best for a particular situation on the field, and don't need some algorithm to pick for them.

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#59

Post by wyldfire » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #41

dhemmerling wrote: post #32

Surface is getting all the heat in the article, but in the linked interview [1] he blames pretty much every part of the infrastructure other than the interface: > The other communication systems involve the press box to the coaches on the field, and then the coach on the field, the signal caller, or the coach-to-quarterback, coach-to-signal caller system. Those fail on a regular basis. > And again, there's a lot of e…

THIS. Read the transcript, he rants almost exclusively about the entire "system" and it's many parts that all seem to fail at some point. The "tablet" issue is a minor sub point but you know ... clicks = money so the headline "Bill Belichick Hates Microsoft Surface" is what every "journalist" went with.

True, but the Belichick quote near the front of the article is

> “As you have probably noticed, I’m done with the tablets,” he said.

...so I would just attribute this to people naturally referring to the frontend of the system they're using as the system itself. When he said "I'm done with the tablets" perhaps he means "I'm done with the system that I am using from my tablet".

It seems almost as if NFL confesses that it's not [necessarily] MS here, "... multiple factors that can cause issues within our sideline communications system either related to or outside of Microsoft’s technology."

Re: Bill Belichick Throws in the Tablet

#60

Post by jbooth » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

tstrass wrote: post #46

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if a play that might win or lose your game is hinging on you being able to use a piece of software to do something, your quality requirement will be just as high regardless of your age... that would be like saying that a young trader might care less about a bug in their trading software that lost them $$$ compared an older trader...

Fair point if the problems are just crashes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick was getting that frustrated over much more minor things at a time when the game is not on the line. In my experience many older people have extremely low tolerance for usage of technology not going perfectly. For example, I could picture BB chucking the tablet from something like a slight lag when navigating menus or even just disso…

There's a maximum of 40 seconds in between plays.. add in the time for players getting up from a pile, and then the time for them to run to their positions on the line, he's got maybe 25 seconds where this thing absolutely has to work. It's not a matter of being impatient if it's flaky for 10 seconds.