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Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

newyorker.com

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Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#51
post #44

> Dylan went on driving. After a while, he told Cohen that a famous songwriter of the day had told him, “O.K., Bob, you’re Number 1, but I’m Number 2.” > Cohen smiled. “Then Dylan says to me, ‘As far as I’m concerned, Leonard, you’re Number 1. I’m Number Zero.’ Meaning, as I understood it at the time—and I was not ready to dispute it—that his work was beyond measure and my work was pretty good.” Pretty fitting after…

Is that where Steve Jobs got the idea? I know he was a huge fan of Dylan.

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/yarns/appl...

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#52
post #38
post #26

First off, I've always been a huge fan of Cohen. But the opening paragraph made me bristle slightly: "He got by on a three-thousand-dollar grant from the Canada Council for the Arts. This was 1960..." I'm assuming that's Canadian dollars. So he was living abroad doing what he loved, and presumably not breaking much of a sweat. No less than ten years later, in the same country, my parents were struggling to bring up t…

The grant would have been a one-time grant, presumably for the year (or possibly 6 months). Are you talking about your 1970 father's wage being $1500 per year, or per month, or per pay period? The bristling at the journalist is fine (after all, $3000/year in 1960 is approximately equivalent to $24,000/year in today's dollars, with which a single man could live quite well in Greece). But let's make sure we're comparin…

I'm talking per year. A historical exchange rate calculator tells me 3000 CAD was approx 1000 GBP in 1960. According to my father, in 1970 he earned 600 GBP per annum. That was before overtime, which employers pretty much made mandatory by paying such a low basic wage.

He was certainly paid way below the average wage at the time, and as the decade progressed he moved on to better paid work. There was no minimum wage in the UK until 1999, so unscrupulous employers would pay what they could get away with. I think it was something of a low point, and unsurprisingly, the 1970s is remembered as a decade of workers' strikes as they demanded better pay. People often moan about it, but I think it improved our circumstances at the time.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#54

Leonard Cohen is absolutely one of the best (Canadian!) artists of the last century. Seriously; if you have the time, do what you can to discover his music. Songs of Leonard Cohen, Various Positions, and of course I'm Your Man are all must listen albums.

His poetry is good, his music, not so much.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#55
post #18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be impressive to know that in advance, given that actually it was Bob Dylan who won it. (But perhaps they were tipped off that it would be a singer-songwriter, and they made the wrong guess.)

One of the episodes of Revisionist History talks about genius and different types of innovation, through the episode they talk about Cohen and how his song Hallelujah was not an overnight success. Cohen worked on it over 5 years to get it to a point where he was comfortable with! Dylan is also mentioned in that episode, since they had some kind of mutual admiration. Apparently Dylan and Cohen meetup at some point and…

This exchange also included in the linked New Yorker post:

>Over the decades, Dylan and Cohen saw each other from time to time. In the early eighties, Cohen went to see Dylan perform in Paris, and the next morning in a café they talked about their latest work. Dylan was especially interested in “Hallelujah.” Even before three hundred other performers made “Hallelujah” famous with their cover versions, long before the song was included on the soundtrack for “Shrek” and as a staple on “American Idol,” Dylan recognized the beauty of its marriage of the sacred and the profane. He asked Cohen how long it took him to write.

> “Two years,” Cohen lied.

> Actually, “Hallelujah” had taken him five years. He drafted dozens of verses and then it was years more before he settled on a final version. In several writing sessions, he found himself in his underwear, banging his head against a hotel-room floor.

> Cohen told Dylan, “I really like ‘I and I,’ ” a song that appeared on Dylan’s album “Infidels.” “How long did it take you to write that?”

> “About fifteen minutes,” Dylan said.

> When I asked Cohen about that exchange, he said, “That’s just the way the cards are dealt.” As for Dylan’s comment that Cohen’s songs at the time were “like prayers,” Cohen seemed dismissive of any attempt to plumb the mysteries of creation.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the need to bristle when the rest of that paragraph dispells any notion of an "impoverished poet": "Cohen, whose family was both prominent and cultivated, had an ironical view of himself. He was a bohemian with a cushion whose first purchases in London were an Olivetti typewriter and a blue raincoat at Burberry."

This blue raincoat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohk3DP5fMCg

Indeed. From Wikipedia:

In the liner notes to 1975's The Best of Leonard Cohen, which includes the song, he mentions that the famous blue raincoat to which he refers actually belonged to him, and not someone else:

I had a good raincoat then, a Burberry I got in London in 1959. Elizabeth thought I looked like a spider in it. That was probably why she wouldn't go to Greece with me. It hung more heroically when I took out the lining, and achieved glory when the frayed sleeves were repaired with a little leather. Things were clear. I knew how to dress in those days. It was stolen from Marianne's loft in New York City sometime during the early seventies. I wasn't wearing it very much toward the end.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#57
post #52
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grant would have been a one-time grant, presumably for the year (or possibly 6 months). Are you talking about your 1970 father's wage being $1500 per year, or per month, or per pay period? The bristling at the journalist is fine (after all, $3000/year in 1960 is approximately equivalent to $24,000/year in today's dollars, with which a single man could live quite well in Greece). But let's make sure we're comparin…

I'm talking per year. A historical exchange rate calculator tells me 3000 CAD was approx 1000 GBP in 1960. According to my father, in 1970 he earned 600 GBP per annum. That was before overtime, which employers pretty much made mandatory by paying such a low basic wage. He was certainly paid way below the average wage at the time, and as the decade progressed he moved on to better paid work. There was no minimum wage…

Ah ok, that makes sense now. When you wrote "in the same country", I thought you meant in Canada, since that's where Cohen and the grant in question were from. You meant the same country where Cohen stayed for part of the grant, before he went to Greece.

In any case, I sympathize with your complaints about the coverage, since $3000 CAD wasn't a bad deal at all for a single person in 1960, particularly for doing what he loved. Certainly not "scraping by" or having to make sacrifices like your father would have been doing in 1970, with a family to feed. Glad he secured better paying work.

I didn't realize UK only got minimum wage in 1999, wow. It's surprising to me that the US had minimum wage for decades when the UK did not.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#58

Leonard Cohen is absolutely one of the best (Canadian!) artists of the last century. Seriously; if you have the time, do what you can to discover his music. Songs of Leonard Cohen, Various Positions, and of course I'm Your Man are all must listen albums.

His poetry is good, his music, not so much.

The people down-voting you clearly haven't listened to 'Jazz Police'.

Seriously, he's an excellent songwriter, but much of his music is ruined by the choices made in terms of 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals. 'Birds on a Wire' is a great album, because it doesn't have any of that nonsense in it. Some of his other albums are really good too, but I'd say half of his discography is disappointing, despite having excellent songwriting.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#59
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His poetry is good, his music, not so much.

The people down-voting you clearly haven't listened to 'Jazz Police'. Seriously, he's an excellent songwriter, but much of his music is ruined by the choices made in terms of 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals. 'Birds on a Wire' is a great album, because it doesn't have any of that nonsense in it. Some of his other albums are really good too, but I'd say half of his discography is disappointing, despite…

" 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals"

At the risk of -20 downvotes, I was going to say the same thing.

The synths I can handle.

But the backing vocals ... my god man ... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's beyond kitsch.

You gotta take it as a 'package'.

I find that people who are more lyrical tend to like him. Musical people less so.

Often the chords make no sense, they go back and forth, there's no progression - but then you realize they are following the cadence of his prose, and then it kind of makes sense.

He's almost like a beat poet - where there's some 'muzak' in the background.

Re: Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker

#60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people down-voting you clearly haven't listened to 'Jazz Police'. Seriously, he's an excellent songwriter, but much of his music is ruined by the choices made in terms of 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals. 'Birds on a Wire' is a great album, because it doesn't have any of that nonsense in it. Some of his other albums are really good too, but I'd say half of his discography is disappointing, despite…

" 80s synth stuff and disappointing backing vocals" At the risk of -20 downvotes, I was going to say the same thing. The synths I can handle. But the backing vocals ... my god man ... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's beyond kitsch. You gotta take it as a 'package'. I find that people who are more lyrical tend to like him. Musical people less so. Often the chords make no sense, they go back and forth, there'…

Honestly, I consider it kind of tragic. I have some friends who are massive Cohen fans, and even they have to admit that it's just not good music. It's too late now, but I think it would be amazing if he had redone those albums at a later date and made them...good.

If anyone reading this can sing, start drinking whiskey and smoking cigars. You'll die early, but before you do, perfect your Cohen voice and fix this.

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