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CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

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Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#51

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

eternalban wrote: post #49
Intermernet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe elaborate on what you mean? The single acronym in your reply doesn't actually expound a point of view.

NGO is very commonly understood to mean Non-Govermental Organizations. OP proposes that staying "off wires" is a remedy. Simple point made is that intelligence agencies have recourse to wide ranging sensory networks, including NGOs (whether complicit or simply surveilled.)

Except that pointing out that an agency can, with investment, have limited, targeted active surveillance isn't really saying anything about what's effective from stopping that same agency from wide-scale, passive surveillance.

NGOs (even in the case where you're having their help by carrying scanners around for you) aren't within orders of magnitude of the information collected by the average person carrying a cell-phone and tapping the network. You would have to install expensive and complex monitoring equipment over the entire city and install the backend to process it to get even close -- a capability that the US government doesn't have to do everywhere. Which is why they made use of already deployed networks in the first place.

Stopping their passive surveillance strips them of 90% of their power, and NGOs (or other organizations) don't put even a tiny dent in that change.

Which is why many of us were looking for a little more argument than what was given: it's not clear, at all, why either you or the original person thought that NGOs have anywhere near the penetration in to everyday life or surveillance capability that cellphones have.

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#52

Post by austinkurpuis »

He has some interesting points. I can't say I agree with his opinion of where the "real value" of a service comes from. No doubt a service would be nothing without it's users, but it would also be nothing without the blood sweat and tears of the developers who built it.

In the end we're creating something that people want to use and giving people something like Instagram for free is all the reward they deserve. If you Instagram where to pay their users they'd go bankrupt. It's not a viable business plan.

I also feel like he's missing the whole point of open source. No one ever said it would distribute wealth. Bryan Cantrill said it best: "You should open source your project because you never know when a magical little pony is gonna come flying by and shit out a fucking rainbow right in front of you.".

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#53

Post by zajd »

briandear wrote: post #26
Dowwie wrote: post #13

Every time I read about expensive programs like these I think of what else that money could have been spent on that would prevent the need for populations to rise up against their governments.

So who gets that money? You support democracy in China and the Communists start an uprising. You support Communists and the other side starts an uprising; someone is always pissed off -- it isn't "government" vs. "the people." It's vastly more complex. Rarely are there two sides -- more like 200. Intelligence is a wilderness of mirrors as James Angleton had said. You could say "end the CIA" but that's sticking one's…

> This is a complex issue and redistributing money doesn't solve it.

Strangely enough, this seems to be the point of view of all the people who have the money. Funny how that works.

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#54

Post by api »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #50
contingencies wrote: post #8

I was personally in Western Tunisia (on the Algerian border) as the Tunisian uprising, the first of the Arab Spring, began. I was there a month. The protests were in full swing for weeks in every village in the west before anything hit western media. No travel warnings or any of that backdated pretend bureaucracy. I very much doubt the CIA had much of an idea what was going on outside the capital. The only western pr…

A more effective strategy to constant surveillance is to simply raise the background level to just below actionable threshold, so that way their intelligence is effectively useless. That is, really, you should just sit around all day and talk about how you dislike what they're doing, think they're career criminals betraying the nation, that you want to actively do something about it, etc. Bonus points for mixing that…

Maybe you could create AI agents to flood the Internet with seditious chatter.

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#55

Post by [deleted] »

icebraining wrote: post #29
Jamesbeam wrote: post #21

I can not predict social unrest 3-5 days before it happens but my google alert for "black man shot by police" can do the same reliably 24 hours before social unrest starts. Suck this CIA.

I think you'll find a lot of false positives, as unfortunately that alert will be sent more than once a week: http://www.killedbypolice.net/ (M/B means Male/Black)

[deleted]

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#56

Post by Create »

api wrote: post #54
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more effective strategy to constant surveillance is to simply raise the background level to just below actionable threshold, so that way their intelligence is effectively useless. That is, really, you should just sit around all day and talk about how you dislike what they're doing, think they're career criminals betraying the nation, that you want to actively do something about it, etc. Bonus points for mixing that…

Maybe you could create AI agents to flood the Internet with seditious chatter.

Amongst many, IBM has done something that does this and the opposite. It was funded by public money (DoD).

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#57

Post by tomjen3 »

samstave wrote: post #40
icebraining wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find a lot of false positives, as unfortunately that alert will be sent more than once a week: http://www.killedbypolice.net/ (M/B means Male/Black)

Set an alert for "cop convicted of unlawful killing of suspect"

>Tensing pulled over DuBose near campus for a missing license plate. His attorney said Tensing feared being dragged under the car as DuBose tried to drive away. The shooting was captured on video by Tensing’s body camera and depicts DuBose repeatedly being asked for his driver’s license. After DuBose refuses to produce it and get out of the car, a gunshot is heard.

>Tensing, who was fired from the department, was released from jail after posting 10% of $1-million bond. The county prosecutor called the shooting a “senseless act.” Tensing is scheduled to face a jury starting Oct. 24.

>Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck in January recommended criminal charges be brought against Officer Clifford Proctor, who fatally shot an unarmed black man in the back.

>Proctor told investigators he saw Glenn’s hand on his partner’s holster. But an LAPD report that drew upon security footage from a nearby bar in Venice found Glenn’s hand was nowhere near the holster.

>Michael Slager faces up to 30 years in prison if convicted of murder in the shooting death of Scott, who was running away on foot from a traffic stop in North Charleston, S.C., in April 2015. Scott was unarmed.

>The shooting was captured on cellphone video by a passerby. Slager fired eight times at Scott before he was killed, reigniting the debate over how blacks are treated by law enforcement officers.

>Slager, 34, was fired by the North Charleston Police Department and stands trial in October. Previously held in solitary confinement, he has been free since January, when he was released on $500,000 bail and put under house arrest. Last fall, North Charleston approved a $6.5-million civil settlement with Scott’s family.

>Peter Liang, a rookie New York City police officer, was convicted Feb. 11 of manslaughter in the death of Gurley.

>Liang was patrolling a public housing high-rise with his gun drawn in 2014 when he fired and a bullet ricocheted off a wall, hitting Gurley. Liang said he had been holding his weapon safely when a sound jarred him and he accidentally fired.

>In April, a judge reduced the conviction to negligent homicide and sentenced Liang to five years’ probation and 800 hours of community service.

>Chicago Police Officer Jason Van Dyke is charged with first-degree murder in the 2014 shooting death of black teenager McDonald. Van Dyke was charged in November on the same day that the city, on the orders of a judge, released the explosive dash-cam video showing McDonald being shot 16 times.

>On the night of the shooting, Van Dyke and his partner trailed McDonald for nearly half a mile, from a trucking yard where he was said to have been breaking into vehicles. The officers radioed for a Taser in order to apprehend McDonald, who they said was carrying a knife in the middle of the road. According to the video, the officers arrived 10 minutes after the first call and, within 21 seconds, Van Dyke had emptied his 16-round handgun.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-police-deaths-20160707-s...

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#58

Post by acqq »

Jamesbeam wrote: post #21

I can not predict social unrest 3-5 days before it happens but my google alert for "black man shot by police" can do the same reliably 24 hours before social unrest starts. Suck this CIA.

And I can predict 3-5 days in advance how many people will come to the protest event by having access to the Facebook list of "who will come" for that event. The people report themselves.

Re: CIA ‘Siren Servers’ can predict social uprisings 3-5 days in advance

#59

Post by witty_username »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #47
AlexC04 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTFA won't do you much good. It's pretty light on detail. (IMO) It spends most of its time meandering about and trying to sound like some sort of really mind-blowing techno shaman. So much so, that I doubt the authenticity and accuracy of the information that presented. I felt like it read a little more like a paranoid fringe article. I mean "Siren" in this case is named for the seductive nature of the power of the s…

Dangers coming from usage of systems like this by a private corporation is not a cliche. It is a real danger. If it has not clicked for you then advertising network is a behaviour control mechanism.

HN is a behaviour control mechanism. _Other people_ upvote articles and downvote anything they don't like. Therefore ensuring you are forced fed with only articles _they_ like. Your behavior is controlled by all these other people.

/s

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