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N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#51

Post by jwtadvice »

matheweis wrote: post #46
dguido wrote: post #17

Here's the criminal complaint. Check Paragraph 12, sounds like he just liked to take work home with him. I'm leaning on the side that this IS NOT ShadowBrokers. https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/2016/Mart... EDIT: Yeah, Martin is not even being charged with unauthorized disclosure. Not ShadowBrokers, sorry to burst everyone's bubble.

Whilst trying to remain as politically neutral as possible, isn't this basically what Clinton did?

Whilst trying to remain as politically neutral as possible, this the kindest possible interpretation of one thing that Clinton did.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#52

Post by roywiggins »

matheweis wrote: post #46
dguido wrote: post #17

Here's the criminal complaint. Check Paragraph 12, sounds like he just liked to take work home with him. I'm leaning on the side that this IS NOT ShadowBrokers. https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/2016/Mart... EDIT: Yeah, Martin is not even being charged with unauthorized disclosure. Not ShadowBrokers, sorry to burst everyone's bubble.

Whilst trying to remain as politically neutral as possible, isn't this basically what Clinton did?

Nobody has managed to find any documents that passed through Clinton's email server that were labeled as classified, let alone Top Secret.

(One or two documents had classified sections, which were labeled with small (c) marks. The document should have had big CLASSIFIED marks, but since it didn't, missing a (c) next to a paragraph is not an arrestable offense)

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#53

Post by zeveb »

withholding wrote: post #38
VelociRapster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you of the opinion that whistleblowing and espionage are the same thing? It's one thing to call attention to warrantless wiretapping and unconstitutional practices. It's an entirely different thing to take and distribute the source code of a tool used to access foreign government systems. The former is illegal the latter is literally the reason why the NSA was created.

The article clearly implies that Snowden's actions were "theft"

Which they were. Also, espionage. Also, treason.

And — also — not whistleblowing, because nothing he has alleged is illegal.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#54

Post by lettergram »

bdavisx wrote: post #36
lettergram wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried to get a group of people to protest anything? Like seriously, the black lives matter are more effective, than people regarding the NSA, privacy, or encryption. Even though some of the stuff we know about the government is WAY scarier.

Not to downplay the NSA issues -- but it's a lot scarier for a black/brown person to realize their life can be ended when they get stopped for having a tail light out.

I do agree that people will think that way, but it's actually not scarier. Giving the government the power it has, implies the government can basically do what ever it want. It has secret courts, secret arrests, and secret police. That is way more horrifying than the very small risk of being shot - which the numbers don't even fully support that it's getting worse, unjustified, or even preventable. I recommend the Through the Wormhole episode: are we all bigots?).

That being said, I do think we whould always be wary of police and generally question the government. It's important we keep into perspective what's actually a threat and whats just unfortunate. Both should be improved, but one (the NSA) can prevent any sort of improvement, the police shooting rate seems to be more of an over reaction and mistake that almost everyone agrees should be fixed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/13/why-a...

http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/...

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#55

Post by dragonwriter »

zeveb wrote: post #53
withholding wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article clearly implies that Snowden's actions were "theft"

Which they were. Also, espionage. Also, treason. And — also — not whistleblowing, because nothing he has alleged is illegal .

> nothing he has alleged is illegal.

At least one surveillance program revealed by Snowden has been challenged in US courts and found to be illegal, whether any others revealed were illegal remains a disputed point.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/07/politics/nsa-telephone-metadat...

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#56

Post by cvwright »

roywiggins wrote: post #52
matheweis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst trying to remain as politically neutral as possible, isn't this basically what Clinton did?

Nobody has managed to find any documents that passed through Clinton's email server that were labeled as classified, let alone Top Secret. (One or two documents had classified sections, which were labeled with small (c) marks. The document should have had big CLASSIFIED marks, but since it didn't, missing a (c) next to a paragraph is not an arrestable offense)

Spilling the beans on classified information is still illegal, even if it's not properly portion marked in big capital letters.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#57

Post by comex »

cvwright wrote: post #56
roywiggins wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has managed to find any documents that passed through Clinton's email server that were labeled as classified, let alone Top Secret. (One or two documents had classified sections, which were labeled with small (c) marks. The document should have had big CLASSIFIED marks, but since it didn't, missing a (c) next to a paragraph is not an arrestable offense)

Spilling the beans on classified information is still illegal, even if it's not properly portion marked in big capital letters.

Yes, but the presence of three or so poorly marked emails among tens of thousands of them over four years does not do a great job of establishing intent - as opposed to this case, where the Booz employee was found with tons of presumably clearly marked classified documents.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#58

Post by [deleted] »

cvwright wrote: post #56
roywiggins wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has managed to find any documents that passed through Clinton's email server that were labeled as classified, let alone Top Secret. (One or two documents had classified sections, which were labeled with small (c) marks. The document should have had big CLASSIFIED marks, but since it didn't, missing a (c) next to a paragraph is not an arrestable offense)

Spilling the beans on classified information is still illegal, even if it's not properly portion marked in big capital letters.

[deleted]

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#59

Post by duncanawoods »

roywiggins wrote: post #52
matheweis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst trying to remain as politically neutral as possible, isn't this basically what Clinton did?

Nobody has managed to find any documents that passed through Clinton's email server that were labeled as classified, let alone Top Secret. (One or two documents had classified sections, which were labeled with small (c) marks. The document should have had big CLASSIFIED marks, but since it didn't, missing a (c) next to a paragraph is not an arrestable offense)

You are not being neutral by using the Clinton spin of "labeled as classified". The existence of markings is irrelevant. From the FBI statement:

110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified”

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-b...

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#60

Post by nickff »

SEJeff wrote: post #43
dguido wrote: post #17

Here's the criminal complaint. Check Paragraph 12, sounds like he just liked to take work home with him. I'm leaning on the side that this IS NOT ShadowBrokers. https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/2016/Mart... EDIT: Yeah, Martin is not even being charged with unauthorized disclosure. Not ShadowBrokers, sorry to burst everyone's bubble.

What's to say $FOREIGN_INFOSEC_ACTORS don't try to target employees like him? Maybe he did "take his work home" and a FSB operative stole it from his home or hacked his home computer? I'm saying this as if this was Russia and he was a Russian infosec guy, I wouldn't put it past the NSA TAO to go do just that.

Yes, this is dangerous; people shouldn't be allowed to bring government secrets home with them... unless they are cabinet level officials?
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