Police use-of-force data is finally coming to light • Hacker News Board

Re: Police use-of-force data is finally coming to light

#51

Post by ZoF » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 9:13 AM UTC

afandian wrote: post #50

microcolonel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the wikipedia (which confirms my prior understanding): >Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought. This state of mind may, depending upon the jurisdiction, distinguish murder from other forms of unlawful homicide, such as manslaughter. Murder is both specifically unlawful (which is d…

To come at it from the point of view of my parent post. What conviction would a normal citizen normally receive if they shot someone with a gun? I have a hard time prosecutors wouldn't find a way to get the perpetrator tried for murder.

And...?

These are obviously not _normal_ situations are they?

Re: Police use-of-force data is finally coming to light

#52

Post by lojack » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 10:59 AM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #45

afandian wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could look on it as lexicographical civil disobedience. If it's impossible to get justice because the killer was wearing uniform what's the value in the judgements of justice system? If so many cases of behaviour that would lead to a conviction, don't, that conviction loses starts to lose some of its meaning. If an officer is so rarely convicted for murder, at what point does it remain meaningful to use the word…

From the wikipedia (which confirms my prior understanding): >Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought. This state of mind may, depending upon the jurisdiction, distinguish murder from other forms of unlawful homicide, such as manslaughter. Murder is both specifically unlawful (which is d…

Premeditation is what separates first degree murder from second degree murder, not murder from manslaughter.

Re: Police use-of-force data is finally coming to light

#53

Post by jbmorgado » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 1:41 PM UTC

> "Until very recently, and thanks to the likes of The Guardian’s The Counted, Fatal Encounters and Campaign Zero’s Mapping Police Violence, the data to prove the systemic racism that results in the police killings of unarmed black people has not been widely available to the public."

Actually there is already data, and actually that data states that in fact, black people suffer more violence from part of the police, but LESS killings, is just there is a total bias by the media outlets that basically only show cases of police killings involving black victims and don't report the ones with white people.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evid...

Re: Police use-of-force data is finally coming to light

#54

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

resonantjacket5 wrote: post #49

Bartweiss wrote: post #6

An honest question: what's up with the use of the word "murder"? I'm not asking that to start a fight over whether these shootings were justified. I'm asking because that word has a specific criminal definition, and news organizations typically have very strict policies on implying criminal guilt (witness the pre-conviction use of "alleged X" even in the most obvious of cases). As I understand it, most of the names d…

While I understand your concern, the entire point of database is to highlight police misconduct in the first place, and highlighting that many of these deaths were unnecessary. I mean otherwise we'd call lynching's back in the 1900's "alleged murders" since most of them also didn't have murder convictions nor murder charges. Though I guess they could use "manslaughter" instead?

I mean, most newspapers would call lynchings today "alleged murders". The print-news standard still says alleged with witnesses, video, and a confession - until the conviction comes down, the crime is alleged.

That, I guess, was my question. Print journalism applies this rule even when taking moral stances; what's the standard here?

Re: Police use-of-force data is finally coming to light

#55

Post by tenminuteslater » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

cgore wrote: post #25

mc32 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, TC is probably trying to carve itself out as an "edgy" news source" with edgy reporters, so they can play loosey goosey with language. And it's a shame because there definitely is an issue with police aggressiveness and violence and espousing a shoot first ask questions later philosophy for policing. On the other hand, we have too many people with guns who should not own guns. I'm ambivalent about the second am…

Your argument in paragraph 2: the police are too violent and "shoot first and ask questions later". Your argument in paragraph 3: only the police should have guns. Umm ...?

I'd argue that some of the people who fall into "too many people with guns" referenced in paragraph 3 are cops...