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Re: Search Ads

#51

Post by dismantlethesun »

jest3r1 wrote: post #25
downandout wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't general advertising. It's only on the App Store and is based on the keywords you enter into a search in the store. They rolled this out because it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed anymore on there. Apple haters will use any new product to criticize the company, but this seems fairly benign and fills a need among developers.

Ahh yes, more fees for developers. > it's basically impossible for an unknown developer to get noticed They could improve the search algorithm to solve this. Perhaps redesign the app store UI to better accommodate new apps. Or they could stagnate for years and then solve the problem by charging developers more. I'm not a hater though.

> They could improve the search algorithm to solve this.

How? If there are 1000s of new apps coming out per day, how do you better accommodate all of them?

Re: Search Ads

#52

Post by awesomerobot »

the_common_man wrote: post #17

This is...insane. The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. And now they want to charge me for promoting my app in their store. This should just be a built-in part of the App Store story for the customers. This is why Apple customers pay a premium. Instead Apple sees an opportunity here to make even more money off me / the app authors? Hats off to Apple. First, t…

Pretty sure it isn't just about discovery considering you couldn't have an app on an iPhone without Apple. This is just an inevitability of a walled ecosystem.

Re: Search Ads

#53

Post by aikah »

supercoder wrote: post #49
the_common_man wrote: post #17

This is...insane. The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. And now they want to charge me for promoting my app in their store. This should just be a built-in part of the App Store story for the customers. This is why Apple customers pay a premium. Instead Apple sees an opportunity here to make even more money off me / the app authors? Hats off to Apple. First, t…

The whole point is not discovery. It's distribution. If you take away the app store, there's nothing to download. Search ads give companies a legitimate way to promote apps within the app store, outside of editorial or bad tactics to game search results (title keyword stuffing, keyword highjacking etc). The App Store is where the customers are, so it makes sense to allow advertising here. Otherwise the alternative Go…

> The App Store is where the customers are

iOS customers don't have the choice but to go get their apps on the appstore. Saying that is redundant.

Re: Search Ads

#54

Post by georgeecollins »

HSO wrote: post #44
the_common_man wrote: post #17

This is...insane. The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. And now they want to charge me for promoting my app in their store. This should just be a built-in part of the App Store story for the customers. This is why Apple customers pay a premium. Instead Apple sees an opportunity here to make even more money off me / the app authors? Hats off to Apple. First, t…

> The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. Actually, the point of the app store was distribution. That's what the 30% cut was for IIRC. And that's how they sold it, by comparing it to the 50% and more cut that older, traditional channels took at the time of introduction. I don't think they ever even thought about discovery, which would explain why the app store…

What distributor of software ever charged 50%? Retailers of CD-ROM games (when they were a thing) and video games do not charge that kind of markup.

You are crazy if you think this is a way for Apple to do anything other than capture some of the existing market of app ads, which has been incredibly lucrative for Facebook. They have so many ways to get more information about how useful an app is likely to be for you that they don't use, they don't need another signal.

Re: Search Ads

#55

Post by notatoad »

the_common_man wrote: post #46
zbuttram wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of ads you want a system where random relevant apps are floated to the top of searches? How is that helpful for anyone? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like Apple is only doing what every other search system with embedded ads at the top does.

So you are saying Google search is useful only because of ads?

for many search terms, and in my opinion, yes. a typical use case on an app store is searching for something like the example given on apple's promo page here: "photo filters". neither the app store or google has enough intelligence to make a decision about what the best result is, given a query that vague and returning that many results. the most useful thing they can actually display is likely an ad.

try searching for something like "car insurance" on google with adblock turned off - the majority of the visible page area will be used by some sort of ad unit, and the native results are pretty useless.

Re: Search Ads

#56

Post by jgalt212 »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #18
esotericsean wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely difficult to get noticed on the app store because it's so huge now. I think this was a necessary move. Apple does harvest your data, but they don't sell it. You're not a product. The headphone jack is an entirely different situation. It was a necessary move on Apple's part in order to push industry standards towards wireless. I'm sure in a few years, we're all going to laugh about all the wires and cab…

Wired headphones aren't going anywhere, Apple or no.

in the sense that Lightning did not kill USB, you are correct, sir.

Re: Search Ads

#57

Post by yankyou »

HSO wrote: post #44
the_common_man wrote: post #17

This is...insane. The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. And now they want to charge me for promoting my app in their store. This should just be a built-in part of the App Store story for the customers. This is why Apple customers pay a premium. Instead Apple sees an opportunity here to make even more money off me / the app authors? Hats off to Apple. First, t…

> The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. Actually, the point of the app store was distribution. That's what the 30% cut was for IIRC. And that's how they sold it, by comparing it to the 50% and more cut that older, traditional channels took at the time of introduction. I don't think they ever even thought about discovery, which would explain why the app store…

> Actually, the point of the app store was distribution. That's what the 30% cut was for IIRC.

Nobody was paying Apple 30% because that was cheaper than distributing yourself. They paid 30% because without paying that their app wouldn't get discovered, by design.

Now Apple has decided 30% only buys you the privilege of being able to pay more to be discovered.

Re: Search Ads

#58

Post by HSO »

georgeecollins wrote: post #54
HSO wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. Actually, the point of the app store was distribution. That's what the 30% cut was for IIRC. And that's how they sold it, by comparing it to the 50% and more cut that older, traditional channels took at the time of introduction. I don't think they ever even thought about discovery, which would explain why the app store…

What distributor of software ever charged 50%? Retailers of CD-ROM games (when they were a thing) and video games do not charge that kind of markup. You are crazy if you think this is a way for Apple to do anything other than capture some of the existing market of app ads, which has been incredibly lucrative for Facebook. They have so many ways to get more information about how useful an app is likely to be for you t…

> Retailers of CD-ROM games (when they were a thing) and video games do not charge that kind of markup.

Maybe not anymore but the app store was launched in 2008. If you look at the percentage a writer or a band makes from a physical book resp. studio album, 50% actually looks very optimistic. Don't forget, there were multiple layers involved, including shipping, wholesalers, retailers, etc. and everybody wanted a cut. There's a reason desktop software to this day has a much higher price anchor than mobile!

Re: Search Ads

#59

Post by ksec »

I find it strange they prefer Ads as part of the solution to discovery problem. Apple App Store Search SUCKS. And I have no idea why. It is not that they cant do search ( Spotlight in Mac ), but they cant do search at scale.

It is also to get some of the Ads revenue from Google and mainly facebook, where Apps install is a huge deal.

Re: Search Ads

#60

Post by WesleyJohnson »

the_common_man wrote: post #17

This is...insane. The whole point of the App Store is to help in discovery and I already pay a 30% cut for my app. And now they want to charge me for promoting my app in their store. This should just be a built-in part of the App Store story for the customers. This is why Apple customers pay a premium. Instead Apple sees an opportunity here to make even more money off me / the app authors? Hats off to Apple. First, t…

> First, they charge developers to even develop for their platform (though this has become free off late).

How has it become free? Honest question, as I'm not sure what you're referring to.

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