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Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

news.bitcoin.com

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Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#51

Post by repomies691 »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #30

I keep hearing about Bitcoin being used to pay for commodities, but will this actually ever scale? With a maximum transaction rate of ~3.5 transactions per second, won't any practical application of Bitcoin for the masses eventually have to be implemented by a bunch of trusted third parties operating off the blockchain and bundling transactions? At that point, we seem to be back to using credit card companies who jus…

Many bitcoin "transactions" are actually offchain transactions already. For example, with bitcoin debit cards you have bitcoin wallet, and then everytime you swipe your card, your account balance is deducted. Or at bitcoin marketplace, you have a wallet, and all transactions you do within the site are done offchain. Only deposits and withdrawals are done onchain.

So yeah, pretty much looks like the bitcoin is already kind of settling layer.

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#52

Post by mercer »

adrianN wrote: post #40
dennist wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I use my credit card for maybe 70% of my spendings. It's true you absolutely need to have cash on you for the occasions when you can't use it but I can buy a 30 yen chocolate bar in every convenience store here. Compare that to Germany where I think no supermarket takes credit cards and even to use electronic cash you have to spend a minimum amount.

Almost every German supermarket takes credit cards usually without a minimum amount. I use mine to pay for almost everything.

In Holland you can usually use your card (debit) for everything, even at festivals, food trucks, café's, etc. using a mobile pin machine. In Berlin, on the other hand, even most small shops only accept cash. Now perhaps this is Berlin-specific, but it's still fascinating to me how culturally-specific these things can remain even in today's world.

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#53

Post by repomies691 »

kang wrote: post #49
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #30

I keep hearing about Bitcoin being used to pay for commodities, but will this actually ever scale? With a maximum transaction rate of ~3.5 transactions per second, won't any practical application of Bitcoin for the masses eventually have to be implemented by a bunch of trusted third parties operating off the blockchain and bundling transactions? At that point, we seem to be back to using credit card companies who jus…

There are scaling solutions like lightning network being built and the blocks are not full. Also for a cup of coffee you don't need so much security so go use litecoin or something, why not.

Why wouldn't I just use some trustful centralized solution for a cup of coffee? In fact, I myself prefer to use credit card for these, where I don't actually have to trust the payment method provider, but the payment method provider trusts me to pay the bill one month later. I don't see how bitcoin can compete on this sector, except for privacy issues.

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#54

Post by tmalsburg2 »

aianus wrote: post #50
dvcrn wrote: post #5

What is the advantage of this? Here in Japan every creditcard is giving you some kind of bonus program and encourages you to use that card for your bills so you automatically aggregate amazon / rakuten (japanese amazon competitor) / ANA / etc points. I mean, I guess I could exchange every month my yen into bitcoins and then pay with it, but why?

If your income is foreign (like in EUR or USD), exchanging to bitcoin and paying with it is much cheaper than directly exchanging to yen or whatever the local currency is.

Not my experience. For two years, I received my salary in EUR and lived in the US. I tried to transfer money using Bitcoin instead of wiring it the traditional way but the Bitcoin exchange fees were actually only slightly smaller than the wiring fees. The additional hassle wasn't worth it.

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#56

Post by tmalsburg2 »

knocte wrote: post #15
dvcrn wrote: post #5

What is the advantage of this? Here in Japan every creditcard is giving you some kind of bonus program and encourages you to use that card for your bills so you automatically aggregate amazon / rakuten (japanese amazon competitor) / ANA / etc points. I mean, I guess I could exchange every month my yen into bitcoins and then pay with it, but why?

I'll take a trustless payment system any day, to hell with plastic.

You mean trustless as in Mt Gox?

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#57

Post by gergles »

andy_ppp wrote: post #47
dennist wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I use my credit card for maybe 70% of my spendings. It's true you absolutely need to have cash on you for the occasions when you can't use it but I can buy a 30 yen chocolate bar in every convenience store here. Compare that to Germany where I think no supermarket takes credit cards and even to use electronic cash you have to spend a minimum amount.

I guess you aren't sight seeing and going restaurants which is mostly what I'm doing while on holiday here. Very few tourist attractions and restaurants take card payments.

I have yet to find a restaurant where the ticket would be over ¥1500 per person that does not take cards. Acceptance signs are not everywhere, but nearly everywhere takes cards.

Yes, tourist attractions do not, but in many cases you can use an IC card for those. The "Japan is only a cash society" canard should die - do you need cash? Yes, but there is a thriving credit card (and basically ubiquitous IC card) payment ecosystem.

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#58

Post by andy_ppp »

gergles wrote: post #57
andy_ppp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you aren't sight seeing and going restaurants which is mostly what I'm doing while on holiday here. Very few tourist attractions and restaurants take card payments.

I have yet to find a restaurant where the ticket would be over ¥1500 per person that does not take cards. Acceptance signs are not everywhere, but nearly everywhere takes cards. Yes, tourist attractions do not, but in many cases you can use an IC card for those. The "Japan is only a cash society" canard should die - do you need cash? Yes, but there is a thriving credit card (and basically ubiquitous IC card) payment…

As a completely random sample the Italian restaurant I'm in right now is going to cost about 4000¥ each and doesn't take card payments ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#59

Post by corv »

dvcrn wrote: post #5

What is the advantage of this? Here in Japan every creditcard is giving you some kind of bonus program and encourages you to use that card for your bills so you automatically aggregate amazon / rakuten (japanese amazon competitor) / ANA / etc points. I mean, I guess I could exchange every month my yen into bitcoins and then pay with it, but why?

You might want to exchange for Bitcoin in order to preserve your purchasing power because the BoJ is printing Yen.

You can't pay online with gold.

Re: Japanese Can Soon Pay Their Utility Bills with Bitcoin

#60

Post by rrobukef »

repomies691 wrote: post #53
kang wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are scaling solutions like lightning network being built and the blocks are not full. Also for a cup of coffee you don't need so much security so go use litecoin or something, why not.

Why wouldn't I just use some trustful centralized solution for a cup of coffee? In fact, I myself prefer to use credit card for these, where I don't actually have to trust the payment method provider, but the payment method provider trusts me to pay the bill one month later. I don't see how bitcoin can compete on this sector, except for privacy issues.

You really do have to trust your payment method provider to protect you against fraud. You have to trust it not to committing fraud. Your payment method provider does not 'trust' you to pay the bill. They trust that they have the bigger stick and better lawyers.
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