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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#51

Post by andyjohnson0 »

lmm wrote: post #35
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely not against terraforming, but I'd be against individual governments doing it for the same reasons that I gave for corporations. IMO it would have to be an international endeavour. Certainly wen we're talking about the solar system, where the number of candidate planets is basically two (plus Titan?). Does a Chinese planet and a US planet and a Facebook moon represent a useful and viable future? In some…

> Does a Chinese planet and a US planet and a Facebook moon represent a useful and viable future? I'd say it's a better future than the "no terraforming at all" future. And I suspect the "wait until UN-like bodies are competent and willing to organize terraforming" future is actually the "no terraforming at all" future.

In the sense that we need to remove our dependence on a single-point-of-failure planet to avoid existential risk, then I agree that terraforming is ultimately desirable.

But entire planets claimed by crushingly authoritarian political systems or uncontrolled profit-seeking corporations doesn't seem like a great way to safeguard humanity either.

What do you want terraforming for?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#52

Post by grondilu »

perilunar wrote: post #40

As Gerard K. O'Neill famously asked, "Is the surface of a planet really the right place for an expanding technological civilization?"[1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_K._O%27Neill#Space_colo...

Thought about that as well.

There's a nice PBS Space Time episode where they invented a word about it : "surfacism".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5KV3rzuag

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#53

Post by titzer »

flexie wrote: post #7

Imagine the wealth a company could amass if it succeeded in terraforming mars. Rare metals, sale of land etc. This is one of those markets where you have rather high barriers to entry.

This is kind of exploitative attitude is why we're in the situation we're in with Earth.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#54

Post by the_duke »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26
espadrine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the idea BUT… If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars? I might be mistaken in my analysis. Still, the only way a colony might survive seems to be by sending tremendous amounts of resources to Mars yearly. They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent.

Not a high chance. Earth has a molten core, which generates a magnetic field that shields us from harmful cosmic rays. It's been like this for so long that we've evolved to require this shielding. Mars has less of a molten core, and a very weak magnetosphere. Therefore outdoor terraforming seems unlikely. We may have to walk around on Mars inside shielded colonies only, along with whatever other life we bring: plants…

There is plenty of water on mars, in the form of ice.

I agree though that mars colonies would be underground for a long, long time.

This article covers some problems with terraforming Mars: http://www.science20.com/robert_inventor/trouble_with_terraf...

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#55

Post by kseistrup »

noir_lord wrote: post #47
kseistrup wrote: post #44

Humans belong to one of the most, if not THE most, destructive species on Earth. We exploit all resources we can lay our hands on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of our immense and selfish greed. We would serve the Universe best if we stayed here on Earth, and possibly even obliterated ourselves.

I'm on the other side of this one, while I think it's stupid to wreck the Earth because we need it I don't see why we shouldn't expand out and use the resources, they are just rocks waiting for us to do something with them.

We don't know yet if they're just rocks. And if we can't take care of Earth, I fail to see how we could ever take care of another planet.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#56

Post by lsaferite »

noir_lord wrote: post #47
kseistrup wrote: post #44

Humans belong to one of the most, if not THE most, destructive species on Earth. We exploit all resources we can lay our hands on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of our immense and selfish greed. We would serve the Universe best if we stayed here on Earth, and possibly even obliterated ourselves.

I'm on the other side of this one, while I think it's stupid to wreck the Earth because we need it I don't see why we shouldn't expand out and use the resources, they are just rocks waiting for us to do something with them.

All the Whos in Whoville would beg to differ about them being "rocks waiting for us to do something with them".

Flippancy aside, just assuming there is no consequential life on any of those rocks just waiting for use to exploit is quite arrogant of us. I'm fully behind humans being multi-planetary to increase our bus factor and because it's just plain awesome. I also think some caution is needed to prevent us destroying signs of other life before we even know what we've done. But this is not some revelation, smarter people that me have already thought this stuff through. We just have to follow through on the protocols.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#57

Post by perilunar »

gambiting wrote: post #13
tangue wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each time I'm hearing about minerals (like in asteroid mining) I'm wondering how do you deal with atmosphere re-entry ? Meteorites made of metal are melting so what's the plan here ? And which country will be ok to receive a ton of unguided metal on its territory ?

There's literally 0 chance that mining anything on Mars and bringing it back to Earth would be profitable. Obviously mining is still going to be important to build things on Mars, but sending any metals over, no matter how rare, is just crazy.

Maybe not Mars, but asteroids definitely. Platinum is $33k per kg. Bringing back a tonne would net you $33 million.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#58

Post by hawski »

kseistrup wrote: post #44

Humans belong to one of the most, if not THE most, destructive species on Earth. We exploit all resources we can lay our hands on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of our immense and selfish greed. We would serve the Universe best if we stayed here on Earth, and possibly even obliterated ourselves.

Every species on Earth exploits all resources it can lay its "hands" on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of its immense and selfish greed. We are just better at it.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#59

Post by gambiting »

singuerinc wrote: post #19
gambiting wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally 0 chance that mining anything on Mars and bringing it back to Earth would be profitable. Obviously mining is still going to be important to build things on Mars, but sending any metals over, no matter how rare, is just crazy.

You are thinking what we can do right now. Probably the same thought had the Europeans 500 years ago.

The energy cost of transporting mass over distance isn't going to change no matter what technology we invent.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#60

Post by [deleted] »

singuerinc wrote: post #19
gambiting wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally 0 chance that mining anything on Mars and bringing it back to Earth would be profitable. Obviously mining is still going to be important to build things on Mars, but sending any metals over, no matter how rare, is just crazy.

You are thinking what we can do right now. Probably the same thought had the Europeans 500 years ago.

[deleted]
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