Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 87 posts

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#51

Post by davidf18 »

Much of homelessness is caused by the high cost of housing (SF, NYC, LA, Boston, DC, London, ...) which itself is a result of "market failures" of "economic rents" which are the use of politics to create artificial scarcity. In this case, it is the use of zoning density restrictions and the overuse of historic landmark status. These restrictions make rent and the purchase of homes more expensive to the benefit of landlords. Fix the market failure, fix the zoning rules that create artificial scarcity through politics, and you will do much more to create affordable housing.

See Harvard Economist Edward Glaeser, Build Big, Bill an article which explains the high cost of housing is caused for the reasons I stated. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/build-big-bill-article-1....

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#52

Post by dang »

someguydave wrote: post #43
yummyfajitas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system proposed here is almost the exact opposite of a basic income: What Powered Utah's Success...And finally, most of the advocates and agencies in Utah know each other and work well with each other. They also know most of the homeless people by name...One person recommends a name from the list...Ed Snoddy, who does medical outreach for Volunteers of America, a faith-based nonprofit, speaks up...."He is notorio…

It strikes me that the militant egalitarianism of the present age has reached its peak. The intolerant maximalism of its vulgar shamans has made such a grim backdrop that even modest efforts to hold people responsible for their actions create a bright contrast to the sad state of urban America.

Please don't post ideological rants to HN.

It's not the sort of discussion we're looking for; and people respond in kind, which produces flamewars.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#53

Post by hackuser »

wolf550e wrote: post #24
JBReefer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that doesn't really matter, because in terms of politcal capital, UBI is never, ever going to happen.

Imagine our technology got so good that housing, clothing and feeding most of the population is affordable without raising taxes, as in Star Trek.

> Imagine our technology got so good that housing, clothing and feeding most of the population is affordable without raising taxes

Why do we have to do it without raising taxes? What's wrong with paying taxes? (A shocking thing to say these days, I know!)

The U.S. could now house, feed, cloth, educate, and provide healthcare to its entire population. Is that a worthy goal? U.S. citizens pooled their money to put a person on the moon; they do it for medical research, aircraft carriers, rural telecommunication, and plenty of education and healthcare already. Why not this?

(In fairness, I say the U.S. could do it. I have no data or research, but the U.S. is pretty close to doing it, it's the wealthiest country in the history of the world, other countries do it - I'm confident it's doable.)

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#54

Post by hackuser »

chimeracoder wrote: post #19
alphonsegaston wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this? It was my understanding that the program was being undermined by landlords illegally refusing to accept the rental vouchers, banking on the city being lax in its enforcement. A pretty good calculation given how in bed with the real estate industry every mayoral administration has been, even an ostensibly liberal one like DeBlasio's (see the recent Rivington housing scandal). Seems to me…

Yes, there are plenty. Here's the first hit on Google: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/09/nyregion/for-some-landlord... > The city’s Department of Homeless Services pays many times the amount the rooms would usually rent for — spending over $3,000 a month for each threadbare room without a bathroom or kitchen — because of an acute shortage in shelters for homeless men and women. Indeed, the amount the city pays.. has…

> because of an acute shortage in shelters for homeless men and women.

It sounds like the problem isn't Housing First, but a lack of resources for it.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#55

Post by back_beyond »

SwellJoe wrote: post #48

I have several friends who are homeless or who have been homeless. It's really difficult to overstate how hard it is to get back out of homelessness, once you reach that point, without significant outside help. Think of all of the stuff most folks take for granted that are pretty much mandatory in most US cities in order to get and keep a job: 1. ID. So many of the homeless folks I know have had significant trouble o…

Additionally, not having a way to prepare healthy meals nor exercise regularly leads to a steady decrease in health.

All these factors culminate into a hellish experience in which you regularly face defeat and look for an escape, something you can control, like drugs, alcohol, or death.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#56

Post by hackuser »

SwellJoe wrote: post #48

I have several friends who are homeless or who have been homeless. It's really difficult to overstate how hard it is to get back out of homelessness, once you reach that point, without significant outside help. Think of all of the stuff most folks take for granted that are pretty much mandatory in most US cities in order to get and keep a job: 1. ID. So many of the homeless folks I know have had significant trouble o…

Many great points here. I think many of the responses you describe come down to fear: People are scared of someone different - what will they do? - and scared of the problem, which seems overwhelming.

> It's really difficult to overstate how hard it is to get back out of homelessness, once you reach that point, without significant outside help.

I'd add that when someone becomes homeless, they often are at their weakest point and now have to spend their limited capability on trying to survive (as you describe). On top of that, we're expecting they will overcome incredible challenges and boost themselves out of homelessness. It's just not realistic.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#57

Post by MaxGabriel »

iXce wrote: post #42
pkaye wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does mental illness play into homelessness in Italy? Seems to be a common issues here in the US.

From what I've seen, this feeling might be due to the fact that mentally ill people are overly "visible" because they make way more "disturbance" if I may say.

The seriously mentally ill are definitely a large proportion of homeless people. This is the National Coalition for the Homeless writing:

"According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill"

A HUD Report has 26% of people in shelters having a serious mental illness [2] (Search "serious mental illness").

When I researched this a few years ago I regularly saw 200,000 people as the number with serious mental illness who were homeless and about an equal amount in prison (with people regularly cycling in and out of prison because of their mental illness).

[1] http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd... [2] https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2010Homeles...

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#58

Post by jonlucc »

ptaipale wrote: post #34
Chathamization wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you end up with "projects" with a drug problem You could just put them in high quality apartments and give them a stipend. The current proposal for a "projects" style homeless shelter where I am would have each unit cost $4,500 per month, with 90% of the units not having a private bathroom (and most not having a full kitchen). For that price you could easily afford a high end apartment and give the people a large s…

Great, but then you'll notice that many other people also like to have a high quality apartment and a stipend. Eventually, you have to give it to a lot of people, and those who work on low salary and pay their rent for a not-so-high-quality apartment will not be happy and many of them will also acquire a status where they deserve a high quality apartment and a stipend.

If high quality is defined as having a private bathroom, I doubt you'll see a lot of people opting for it.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#59

Post by grahamburger »

Oh hey, I've been to that shelter. I live in (and grew up in) Utah. My Aunt is severely mentally ill and homeless and relies on the Road Home shelter, I've visited her there a few times. They are doing good work, although being homeless is still pretty shitty, obviously. The hardest part is that the state could take much better care of her if she would allow herself to be diagnosed as handicapped due to her mental illness, but she doesn't believe that she's mentally ill. And of course forcing treatment on her is unethical and probably counter-productive. I don't really know where she's at now, we only have fleeting contact with her.

EDIT: A sad/curious anecdote - at one time she was placed in an apartment. I don't know the details but it was probably using the programs outlined in the article. She lit the apartment on fire and ended up in the hospital. As I understand she believed that she owned the apartment complex and could not understand why the managers would not let her make decisions, so she lit it on fire.

Re: How Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness (2015)

#60

Post by swsieber »

Frondo wrote: post #5
iambateman wrote: post #2

homelessness is tough. In our medium size city (Columbia, SC) we have roughly 1,400 homeless and no one (myself included) seems to know what to do. I feel like affordable/free housing has been tried before, and you end up with "projects" with a drug problem. I wonder how they expect this will be different. Am I off here? Does it not seem naive to say: "they're homeless, so let's just give them an apartment and say ou…

Something this article didn't really get into that I've seen elsewhere: Utah also assigns a caseworker to these people, to help them work on their problems (drugs, drinking, whatever). It's a little more hands-on than just handing over some keys to an apartment; they seem to want this program to work, to have results that stick.

Part of me wonders how much of this program is influenced by Mormon culture. There's this thing known as ward council where they discuss people in the ward (congregation) who have unmet needs, and what can be done to help. Reading the article the similarity popped out to me right away. This program seems like an extension of that on a grander scale.
Post reply on HN