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Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#51

Post by youdontknowtho »

flohofwoe wrote: post #37
youdontknowtho wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. UWP isn't a mobile OS ported to Windows. The whole WinRT is an OS and WinRT is an API set confused things. Forget that there was an ARM tablet. WinRT means the Windows Run Time. It's a set of API's that are built with the Windows OS. The "they made it mobile" part was really a side effect of trying to move to a more managed execution model where the OS took a more aggressive approach to managing the execution of…

I'm using Windows (and OSX, and Linux) everyday and recently started (but didn't finish because of UWP's weirdness) porting my 3D coding framework over to UWP. The same framework is also running on Win32, OSX, Linux (incl RaspPI), iOS, Android, HTML5 and PNaCl, so I do have some multi-platform experience. Of these platforms, and with the exception of Android NDK, UWP is the most painful to port to (if you're interest…

Then this announcement is really for you because you can now use the code unmodified.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#53

Post by garganzol »

UK-AL wrote: post #44
swiley wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The global filesystem is only a problem if you run lots of closed source/untrustworthy apps. Many of us don't and use the global filesystem very heavily and very much hope it does not go away.

Except for the vast majority of people are not IT experts. The store model is probably vastly safer for the average user.

An average user is a myth. Every kind of average user has its own traits and they differ widely.

That's why there is such thing as system settings.

And yes, most desktop users are conscious when they work with files. Windows by default suggests "My Documents" folder as a target destination which is a pretty sane safe choice for all traits of average Joes.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#54

Post by kodfodrasz »

swiley wrote: post #40
kodfodrasz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP is limited as it is relatively new. The new (capabilities based) security model is clearly better than the old "if you are admin, you can do whatever you want" model. The old model was inadequate even at the start of the multimedia age, but it was not recognized until recently. The new sandboxed operation creates more portable and reproduceably operating apps. The limitations will show, as more and more usecases…

The global filesystem is only a problem if you run lots of closed source/untrustworthy apps. Many of us don't and use the global filesystem very heavily and very much hope it does not go away.

I guess you also only then need a firewall, if you use closed source software. When using OpenSource software you can always be sure that nothing will do unauthorized access to your network, willingly or accidentally...

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#55

Post by flukus »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #24
flukus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it may take their desktop with it. The industry doesn't want to invest in a desktop windows app because there is no clear direction. WPF/Win32 etc seem to be getting deprecated, but UWP is too limited.

UWP is limited as it is relatively new. The new (capabilities based) security model is clearly better than the old "if you are admin, you can do whatever you want" model. The old model was inadequate even at the start of the multimedia age, but it was not recognized until recently. The new sandboxed operation creates more portable and reproduceably operating apps. The limitations will show, as more and more usecases…

I really disagree with UWP being a better model than limited UAC. Apps being able to talk to each other and the filesystem and interacting is what makes them useful. The linux/sudo approach is the best comrpomise between security and utility I'm yet to come across.

> The old system had defaults originating from the single user non-multimedia usecases left over as a legacy, but currently we have so many things going on our computers, that privacy/security needs a rethinking of old concepts to cope with new challenges.

I android has proven anything it's that sandboxed applications don't solve this problem.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#56

Post by pjc50 »

flukus wrote: post #19
icebraining wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The introductory phrase of UWP explains why they pushed it: "A Universal Windows Platform (UWP) app can run on any Windows-based device, from your phone to your tablet or PC" . The point was getting more applications for their mobile platform by coaxing developers who might have otherwise built a desktop-only application. I'd say this new development is essentially an admission of defeat on mobile.

The problem is that it may take their desktop with it. The industry doesn't want to invest in a desktop windows app because there is no clear direction. WPF/Win32 etc seem to be getting deprecated, but UWP is too limited.

Desktop Windows is clearly the technology of the past, and I say that as someone who develops on it every day.

People starting in a green field will build a web or a mobile app if at all possible. The cases where it isn't are basically games and what used to be called "workstation" apps: big chunky tools like SolidWorks.

Even Adobe have retreated to the cloud, although the tools still run locally.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#57

Post by youdontknowtho »

flukus wrote: post #49
youdontknowtho wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who actually make money on windows development know that WPF and Win32 are not deprecated. In fact, they don't really deprecate things. They may stop pushing something as the new hotness...but VB6 apps still run on windows. Those data access technologies that no one uses anymore...those still work on windows. If you are worried about your investment in time not being the new hotness, well that's one thing. If…

I'm not worried about it dissapearing, I'm worried the modern teh stack will change (it has). Then you start to either lose talent or rebuild the app.

Do what now? Does that mean that I can't build apps in C++ anymore? Because it looks like I can and it also looks like I have more options than I ever have. In fact, I can finally use standard ISO c++ to do more than ever. Do you just mean one UI toolkit over another?

I wonder how Adobe has "kept talent" without rebuilding photoshop?

If you are worried about keeping your personal skills up to date and focused on an area that will earn you personally a living then you should know that some of the most highly paid people I've met in technology code for some of the most niche platforms. I mean serious f*ck off money. Say it with me...AS400. (Or ISeries or whatever the hell it's called now.)

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#58

Post by ahoka »

swiley wrote: post #40
kodfodrasz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP is limited as it is relatively new. The new (capabilities based) security model is clearly better than the old "if you are admin, you can do whatever you want" model. The old model was inadequate even at the start of the multimedia age, but it was not recognized until recently. The new sandboxed operation creates more portable and reproduceably operating apps. The limitations will show, as more and more usecases…

The global filesystem is only a problem if you run lots of closed source/untrustworthy apps. Many of us don't and use the global filesystem very heavily and very much hope it does not go away.

I think it's the same tier as global variables: an anti-pattern.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#59

Post by swiley »

UK-AL wrote: post #44
swiley wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The global filesystem is only a problem if you run lots of closed source/untrustworthy apps. Many of us don't and use the global filesystem very heavily and very much hope it does not go away.

Except for the vast majority of people are not IT experts. The store model is probably vastly safer for the average user.

Honestly I think not having a global filesystem makes things harder for the "average user." Most college students aren't going to only keep their word documents in word for example, they need to email them and upload them to tools like blackboard.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#60

Post by kodfodrasz »

koko775 wrote: post #38
kodfodrasz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP is limited as it is relatively new. The new (capabilities based) security model is clearly better than the old "if you are admin, you can do whatever you want" model. The old model was inadequate even at the start of the multimedia age, but it was not recognized until recently. The new sandboxed operation creates more portable and reproduceably operating apps. The limitations will show, as more and more usecases…

WinRT means: * No app closure callbacks. You don't know if it's suspending or exiting. * No "are you sure you want to exit? Save/Don't save" dialogs. If you close or crash pray your data was saved, and if it takes a long time to flush to disk...really pray. * No minimizing/backgrounding to tray icons allowed.

* I guess You can create a background worker handling persistence, which runs until completion even if the UI has been closed. (I have not used UWP yet)

* IMHO save/don't save dialogs are an usability antipattern.

* Tray icons are also something of a remedy of the past. They are now replaced by background operations and live tiles. I can see why those can be problems, I can imagine the usecases you would solve using those tools, but the new app model is build around a slightly different workflow.

But if you do not like the way to solve it as it is intended in the new app model, the solution is: report it/upvote it. If you tell your problems here, then some members of HN community will know it and understand it, but it is unlikely that it will be acted upon by Microsoft. For that you need to have your voice heard on their forums. (eg. feedback app, uservoice...)

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