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Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

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Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#51

Post by socmag »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #49
socmag wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious general open question here. It strikes me as odd that on the one hand you say you want to ditch windows in favor of FOSS, but then go on to say that you use Windows just to play games. The interesting thing is that games are some of the most costly and closed source things in software today. Windows costs the price of two games or less. Further, if you own a PlayStation, an XBox it's likely you have spent hun…

> The interesting thing is that games are some of the most costly Hah! I wish. I've spent thousands on single SKUs - yet SASS and anything B2B can make that look like chump change. Meanwhile, Steam sales discount high quality, high end titles significantly pretty quickly - to the point where a lot of gamers basically never pay full price. To say nothing of mobile being flooded with $0.99 titles. To say nothing of the…

Right I know, I've been there and witnessed it first hand trying to sell on the iPhone app store.

I was more thinking of zero day PC Games and especially console games in my comment but that should have been made clearer. I get that they do get heavily discounted though over time.

Totally agree with your penultimate paragraph, nobody likes it yet we still have our Netflix accounts AND our Amazon accounts.

To me it seems HN often picks on the little guys who are just trying to make a buck while actively supporting giant corporates and going Wheeee!

Nice post by the way

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#52

Post by lugg »

jcrites wrote: post #50
_qbjt wrote: post #43

Maybe I'm in the minority but I prefer keeping my GNU/Linux and Windows installations separate, with each OS on its own drive. My Linux setup is secure, free of proprietary software and under my full control. When I run tcpdump, I'm met with a clean log where every packet is one I recognize. I get to use my favorite window manager (awesomewm) and I don't have to worry about forced updates. My Windows install is quite…

It would be nice to be able to develop "native" Linux software right from within Windows where I'm doing other things. I can see the appeal. That's why Microsoft built the Linux subsystem, I suppose.

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

Although I'm guessing a few devs are in the boat with "all company PCs must be windows." Gives them an out no?

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#53

Post by socmag »

alexbecker wrote: post #48
socmag wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said, he feels he is betraying open source. Actually that somewhat hits the nail on the head regarding how a lot of us feel. We'd love to do it but the pragmatic reality is that we can't do that all the time. He feels the pain, I feel the pain, and I'm sure a lot of other people do as well. The fact remains if he or I play games, or I buy a tv or a washing machine. Well screw us both because on some level we are b…

Those were different users commenting.

Whoops okay! But the observation remains, just hike the root node of this up one level in the tree for me. My bad.

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#54

Post by Kenji »

socmag wrote: post #47
Kenji wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing against closed source, and I don't think FOSS is inherently good. I am a long-time fan of Windows and Microsoft, and I owned two Xbox 360 and an Xbox One. I just noticed a trend in Windows: Less customizability, less control, more automatic updates and erratic behaviours (recently, a Windows update caused my screen to turn black randomly on my Laptop. While I was working on my thesis that was due in a…

Okay I understand, and I more or less feel the same way for the most part. Although I use Linux 95% of the time, and I think Windows has lost its way a little. I would disagree that it isn't robust. The kernel at least is quite excellent. But that's another topic. Sorry for raising this issue, it's the "I will pay $1000's of dollars for hardware, and games", but I can't spare change for an OS that got me started. Apo…

No apologies needed :)

Oh, and I also think the Windows kernel is quite excellent. Based on my past experience with how quickly my laptop battery is being depleted, I also feel like Windows 7 saves more energy than Ubuntu. It is just that with the advent of Windows 10, I cannot help but feel like Microsoft adopts some infantilizing practices which I cannot stand. In particular, that my OS is permanently communicating with the internet and doing stuff with compressed memory now - something it never did in such scales on Windows 7. I just want a solid, predictable system. Not one that shoots my CPU usage up to 100% at a random time during the day because "system and compressed memory". If an idle system makes my CPU fans howl at random times of the day, doing unspecified work that I cannot control, it does something wrong. Period.

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#55

Post by SwellJoe »

shmerl wrote: post #40
SwellJoe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was so excited when Linux versions started showing up on Steam. It meant I very rarely needed to reboot into Windows. But, I've tinkered recently with Windows 10 and WSL, and it's actually really neat. They've done a remarkable job making it work like a real Linux system in a lot of regards; my projects kinda bump up against the limitations of that (as they are administrative tools and perform actions as root and s…

What kind scenarios do you find it useful in? I.e. when would you use it instead of native Linux for the same purpose?

Mostly just when I first got my laptop and didn't have Linux on it, yet. Which, I guess is begging the question..."When would you use WSL?" "Well, you know, those times when I used it."

So...the answer is I would never use it over native Linux, except when I happen to be in Windows and need to use Linux. The people who currently run a VM with Linux in it on their Windows machine are an excellent target audience. I would guess people who build cross-platform apps would also be an excellent target audience. In fact, using it for a little while got me thinking about what kinds of apps I might like to make, if I were to work on desktop apps again (it's been a very long time since I've worked on anything that installed on Windows, and even as recently as a year ago, the idea of it probably never crossed my mind).

So, it's good for Microsoft. And, good for people who prefer Windows on the desktop, but also have to deploy on Linux servers or deliver to Linux users. People who use Linux natively, by choice, and are very comfortable doing so probably don't gain anything from using Windows with WSL.

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#56

Post by flukus »

_qbjt wrote: post #43

Maybe I'm in the minority but I prefer keeping my GNU/Linux and Windows installations separate, with each OS on its own drive. My Linux setup is secure, free of proprietary software and under my full control. When I run tcpdump, I'm met with a clean log where every packet is one I recognize. I get to use my favorite window manager (awesomewm) and I don't have to worry about forced updates. My Windows install is quite…

> Maybe I'm in the minority but I prefer keeping my GNU/Linux and Windows installations separate, with each OS on its own drive.

That's essentially how the windows subsystem works. It might not technically be a VM, but practically it is.

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#57

Post by walterbell »

wtallis wrote: post #26
gcb0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same. is this a selective process? i mean, can I allow access to my video card and but still not to the rest of the CPU/memory/storage?

Yes. Most Intel CPUs from the past decade have supported hardware virtualization extensions (VT-x) that allow for efficient virtual machines, where the host system allocates CPU time and memory much as it would for an ordinary userspace process. Select Intel CPUs also support an IOMMU extension (VT-d) that allows PCIe devices to be virtually isolated from the host system; effectively, the device's DMA goes in to the…

e.g. with Xen (and probably ESXi/KVM?), it is possible to run FreeNAS in a VM with PCI passthrough of the storage controller, pfSense in a VM with PCI passthrough of physical NICs (or bridge to virtual NICs), Windows in a VM with a dedicated GPU, and Linux or OpenBSD in yet other VMs, all on one "desktop" that consolidates clients/firewall/NAS. If you get the right hardware, BIOS and PCI devices.

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#58

Post by socmag »

pfranz wrote: post #46
socmag wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the other comment where I hope I pointed out the reasoning.. The "Betray Open Source" bit. You might be right that there is some projection. I've been working on a project for quite some time now, without any pay and it is close to completion, and I more and more frequently reflect on how it should be positioned, marketed and ultimately generate some revenue so that I can actually afford my own apartment.…

I think everyone is a bit split on it. We realize how accessible and empowering open source software has made things, so there's a preference to encourage that. As a kid I was curious about Unix workstations, but knew they cost $30k and I wasn't going to get access to one unless it was a university or larger company shared with other people. Only a few years later Linux was released and today I could get a computer f…

Thanks for putting that answer together. It's generally how I feel.

"come up with a whole other business in order to make income from it"

You really hit the nerve there.

And is not that I'm naive enough not to think that marketing function and all the rest shouldn't exist. It's just sheer frustration.

Cheers

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#59

Post by sremani »

lugg wrote: post #52
jcrites wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to be able to develop "native" Linux software right from within Windows where I'm doing other things. I can see the appeal. That's why Microsoft built the Linux subsystem, I suppose.

Embrace, extend, extinguish. Although I'm guessing a few devs are in the boat with "all company PCs must be windows." Gives them an out no?

No this is not that. The idea is some frameworks/platforms have become nix first, ex. Ruby, Python to an extent Java etc. OCaml to only name some. Windows Subsytem for Linux is about bringing these nix first developer plats to Windows and help developers like me to remain on Windows.

Re: Arch Linux adapted for Windows Subsystem for Linux

#60

Post by walterbell »

socmag wrote: post #58
pfranz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone is a bit split on it. We realize how accessible and empowering open source software has made things, so there's a preference to encourage that. As a kid I was curious about Unix workstations, but knew they cost $30k and I wasn't going to get access to one unless it was a university or larger company shared with other people. Only a few years later Linux was released and today I could get a computer f…

Thanks for putting that answer together. It's generally how I feel. "come up with a whole other business in order to make income from it" You really hit the nerve there. And is not that I'm naive enough not to think that marketing function and all the rest shouldn't exist. It's just sheer frustration. Cheers

There is a goldmine of unique historical discussion on free software business models on the "Free Software Business" mailing list archives, going back to 1994. Includes industry luminaries including Cygnus/RedHat founders. Content is hard to navigate but priceless, needs to be rescued and imported into a modern mailing list archiver.

http://www.crynwr.com/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?ddn:0:0#b

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