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Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#51

Post by lifeisstillgood »

epicureanideal wrote: post #49
lisper wrote: post #46

What was most shocking to me was that some of these kids managed to get U.S. passports without being citizens. How does that happen? I'm a first generation immigrant. My parents were naturalized when I was 10. AFAIK that means that I automatically acquired their naturalization. But I do not have a naturalization certificate of my own, and I don't have a copy of my parents certificate. I do hold a U.S. passport, but t…

Really? Trump and the brown shirts? Do we need to compare everybody to Hitler? I read an article recently that says he's more of an American version of Italy's Berlusconi, and that seems more reasonable to me.

I know the inexorable pull of Godwins Law, but this is a reasonable fear - Trump is standing at the top of a slippery slope, Berlusconi is further down the same slope, and the history of the 20th C shows where the slope goes.

Putting up warning signs, even contentious ones, at the top of the slope is reasonable.

(I read the same article and it is worth noting that a decade ago, every Italian I spoke to began conversations with "I am sorry about Berlusconi ...")

I am not advocating ignoring all discussion of issues raised by Trump or (trumping?!) all his issues with the Nazi card, but it is a part of his background and appeal and should be calmly assessed along with other issues of protectionism, labor rights and more.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#52

Post by superuser2 »

drinchev wrote: post #20

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

>I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship.

The American electorate believes unemployment is caused by an improper ratio of people to jobs, and it can be solved both by increasing the number of jobs and decreasing the number of people.

In this theory, your friend's expulsion was a victory for the American who took over her job, and for the unemployed person who entered the labor market (if not directly, then via a domino effect).

We are comparatively loose with immigration statuses that don't permit work. Tourist, student, etc. visas are relatively trivial to obtain. We have programs that allow work which doesn't compete with Americans, such as international performing arts groups on tour. We even have programs to fill jobs that Americans aren't available to fill (H1B for highly skilled labor, seasonal farm workers, etc).

The moat is built around statuses that permit competition with Americans for jobs in general. It remains this way because Americans do not generally consider or believe Econ 101 ideas like that trade necessarily benefits both sides of the exchange (or they would not make it), more workers also means more consumers, cheaper labor => cheaper goods and services => higher standard of living, etc.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#53

Post by [deleted] »

epicureanideal wrote: post #49
lisper wrote: post #46

What was most shocking to me was that some of these kids managed to get U.S. passports without being citizens. How does that happen? I'm a first generation immigrant. My parents were naturalized when I was 10. AFAIK that means that I automatically acquired their naturalization. But I do not have a naturalization certificate of my own, and I don't have a copy of my parents certificate. I do hold a U.S. passport, but t…

Really? Trump and the brown shirts? Do we need to compare everybody to Hitler? I read an article recently that says he's more of an American version of Italy's Berlusconi, and that seems more reasonable to me.

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#54

Post by intended »

justinlardinois wrote: post #27
drinchev wrote: post #20

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

In the US you can begin the naturalization process after five years of permanent residency. A green card is what establishes permanent residency. (I don't think we have permanent visas, but I could be wrong.) I can only speculate how your friend was allowed to live in this country that long without ever obtaining permanent residency, but regardless, it's an example of the system failing, and that's a really terrible…

Its more than that - the thing is that America was the place where things "just worked". Thats why lots of people in the 80s immigrated.

This stuff is common sense for most agencies to deal with. Lived over 24 years here, born a baby - lets solve this.

Its tragic to be honest. More than anything else, seeing that crumble is disheartening. More than wars, more than Trump.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#55

Post by linkregister »

puranjay wrote: post #41
jzwinck wrote: post #28

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits they have paid into." This means these people are paying taxes to the IRS who collects SS money from them yet they are "not eligible" to work in the US. This is "impossible" but the tax man doesn't ask questions when people send him money. I think if someone has p…

The problem with that is that it penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship My brother has been in the US for nearly 20 years. Started out as a grad student, then as a H1-B. Took him more than 10 years just to get a green card, then 5 years more to be eligible for citizenship. All this while, he must have paid several hundred thousand dollars in taxes (6+ figure income over 15 years) Why should another i…

> penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship

How does another person receiving a benefit penalize your brother?

By the same logic, we should all insist on vicious assaults on new military recruits, because that's how it was done years ago.

As a society we should seek to improve the way we treat people, maximizing practical utility (tax-paying illegal immigrants are benefiting society) and seeking fairness. Chasing fairness as a primary goal is a fruitless endeavor.

I think it's awful for both your brother and society that he was required to wait so long to get his citizenship. Should we repeat the same mistakes out of a misguided attempt at fairness?

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#56

Post by SapphireSun »

parineum wrote: post #34
drinchev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as far as I can remember the story, their parents were there with a working VISA ( extended through time ) and she got at one point ( I think at 18? ) a study VISA until it all expired after university.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh but shouldn't she have applied for a green card as soon as she turned 18? I don't know the ins and outs of immigration but that's because I'm a citizen. If I wasn't, I'd sure as hell know what I needed to do in order to stay in the only country I'd ever known as home.

It's okay to foist an injustice upon someone because they were ignorant or lazy? We should be making our social systems fail-safe when the consequences are so severe. It shouldn't be possible to eject someone like that without round after round of appeals and second chances to get good paperwork, and if they were eligible for citizenship, and in good faith relied on the idea that they were citizens, then by all rights they should be one.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#57

Post by linkregister »

drdeadringer wrote: post #23
stcredzero wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply putting political gamesmanship over humanity, in the most inhumane way imaginable!

Sounds like a perfect job for Congress. More at 11, here on Fox.

I disagree with using "Congress" as a euphemism for the political party one is in opposition to. Clearly a majority of Americans believe in their own senators and representatives. It's the "other guys" who are bad. Call a spade a spade.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#58

Post by klipt »

drinchev wrote: post #20

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship.

In some ways it isn't: merely being born here grants citizenship. That's no longer the case in any EU country: Ireland repealed birthright citizenship years ago.

It means that simply flying to the US on a tourist visa before your baby is born will grant it citizenship. But living in the US on a work visa for 18 years after your baby is born? That doesn't grant anything.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#59

Post by panic »

epicureanideal wrote: post #49
lisper wrote: post #46

What was most shocking to me was that some of these kids managed to get U.S. passports without being citizens. How does that happen? I'm a first generation immigrant. My parents were naturalized when I was 10. AFAIK that means that I automatically acquired their naturalization. But I do not have a naturalization certificate of my own, and I don't have a copy of my parents certificate. I do hold a U.S. passport, but t…

Really? Trump and the brown shirts? Do we need to compare everybody to Hitler? I read an article recently that says he's more of an American version of Italy's Berlusconi, and that seems more reasonable to me.

This Wednesday he literally promised to create a "deportation force". The comparison isn't too far off.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#60

Post by klipt »

parineum wrote: post #34
drinchev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as far as I can remember the story, their parents were there with a working VISA ( extended through time ) and she got at one point ( I think at 18? ) a study VISA until it all expired after university.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh but shouldn't she have applied for a green card as soon as she turned 18? I don't know the ins and outs of immigration but that's because I'm a citizen. If I wasn't, I'd sure as hell know what I needed to do in order to stay in the only country I'd ever known as home.

How exactly are you going to apply for a green card at 18? It's not like most 18 year olds have the necessary university degrees to qualify for an employment based green card. And 18 is a bit young to be getting married to qualify for a marriage based green card.
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