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Job Descriptions Should Be Better

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Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#51

Post by pault »

ryandrake wrote: post #45
philipov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size and contents of the stack might change from application to application, but it has a consistent definition as, "Whatever it is we need to hire developers to do, I can do all of it."

The parent poster's point was, if you're going to credibly say you "can do all of it", you need to list expertise in x86 assembly and VHDL on your resume. Otherwise, you're only a "most stack" developer.

In the context of web development, I've always thought of full stack as: deep knowledge of front end, more than one back end language/framework, database optimization, networking and linux system administration, and a little bit of graphic design sense. If you can ship a professional-looking and scalable app alone, you can call yourself a full stack web developer. If you're working with embedded systems, obviously the definition changes.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#52

Post by vijayr »

Sophistifunk wrote: post #23

It's far worse here in Australia. Almost every job ad is written by a slimey salesman in a recruitment company, so: a) The ads are deliberately vague so you can't go direct to the client b) A single job / employer will be listed in several vaguely-worded ads from competing rent-seeking-middlemen c) For the invaluable work of obfuscating the description and wasting everybody's time, these people will take 10-20% of yo…

Same case here in the U.S. Not just recruiters, even the job sites are slimy. In addition to what you mentioned, I've noticed this - job sites keep changing the date. So a job that looks like it was posted "today" was likely posted two weeks ago. I'm just waiting to see if one of these days the posted date is in the future!

Middlemen also change resumes without your permission, remove all your contact info from the resume before sending to employers etc. Overall, it is a real shitty business to be in.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#53

Post by talmand »

hyperhopper wrote: post #50
ryandrake wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent poster's point was, if you're going to credibly say you "can do all of it", you need to list expertise in x86 assembly and VHDL on your resume. Otherwise, you're only a "most stack" developer.

Not at all. Most companies will never need to write assembly, or anything at that level, so its not part of the stack. If you want to be that pedantic, do you need to forge the metals you use in your computers since thats part of the stack as well?

I would reply on my new machine but I'm still waiting on my drum of oil so I can process it into plastics for the keyboard.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#54

Post by coldcode »

At my employer (very large) the hiring managers don't get to see the job descriptions that were written by HR and resumes can only be submitted to some system that limits how many can be submitted by each recruiting agency. So we never get anyone to even interview that matches what we need unless we cheat the system.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#55

Post by jschwartzi »

haylem wrote: post #25
adrianratnapala wrote: post #7

> The whole point of them is to provide a candidate a description of what a position is like. The trouble is I don't think its possible to know what a position is like until you start it. At least it has been thus with all my jobs so far. Best you can do is tell the candidate what (a) skills are needed, and (b) what the team is doing. I guess a lot of these job descriptions are doing a poor job of (b) by trying to be…

I asked a few times to be allowed to lurk around the offices, either directly one the day of the interview, or for a day prior to my starting date (but after having signed a contract, though). Helps to get a feel of the place at least, if not necessarily of your day job (but obviously, looking at your future team's activity is recommended here). Generally it was positively received, although in large companies there…

One of my mentors makes it a point to always ask to meet the team he will be working with during the interview, rather than just meeting the hiring manager. I would consider it a huge red flag if your interviewer didn't allow you to meet your potential future team members.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#56

Post by jdmichal »

s3nnyy wrote: post #43

Hiring engineers is truly a sourcing problem. Bad ad-copy is part of this problem. When I interview companies, I almost always find something that makes them special (young engineers, exceptional tech-stack, real engineering-driven culture etc.). This is what I pitch to potential candidates. Maybe ad-copy of (great) company is often bad, even if engineers write them because authors ca not see the peculiarities of the…

> In German we call this "Betriebsblindheit" and there seems to be no translation to English.

The literal translation would be "business-blindness" or "working-blindness", and you're correct that there's not really a good immediate translation that I can think of. It's maybe a kind of sensory familiarity -- the non-perception of things that are familiar. Like how you forget that the loud air conditioner is blowing, because it's been constantly droning for a while.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#57

Post by [deleted] »

Singletoned wrote: post #20

My rule of thumb for writing things like job descriptions is that it doesn't mean anything unless someone else might write the opposite. So "Software Engineers who want to write great code" is meaningless, as is "committed to building the best products". But I disagree with some of his other examples: > solve problems from beginning to end: everything from product conceptualizations to engineering implementations. Th…

[deleted]

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#58

Post by Paul_S »

quantumhobbit wrote: post #39
Dayshine wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's half the stack... Who specialises in the lower parts?

You aren't full-stack unless you are writing the Verilog for the chips that run your other code. Seriously though the term full-stack is pointless as everyone has a different definition of what that means but still wants to say "I am full-stack"

You can be contrarian about it but full stack includes assembly.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#59

Post by olavgg »

selectron wrote: post #2

The main thing I want from job descriptions is a salary range. The fact that companies don't post salaries is a strong counter-point to how companies complain about how hard it is to hire software engineers.

In Norway, positions from public departments like the tax department usually includes salary range in the job description. They often pay very well too, while at the same time they have a very good description of what expertize they need. In fact most developers here in Norway should read those job descriptions, take notes and be ready fight for better salary for their next job interview.

The tax department here in Norway pays between 80k-130k annually for senior software developers. While earlier this year I got a 55k offer from a private company. I so wanted to show them the job listing from the tax department, but I just said thanks for the interview, but no thanks.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#60

Post by kazagistar »

Singletoned wrote: post #20

My rule of thumb for writing things like job descriptions is that it doesn't mean anything unless someone else might write the opposite. So "Software Engineers who want to write great code" is meaningless, as is "committed to building the best products". But I disagree with some of his other examples: > solve problems from beginning to end: everything from product conceptualizations to engineering implementations. Th…

> it doesn't mean anything unless someone else might write the opposite

This also works great for filtering political platforms.

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